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New 88 "agilis" From Romania

Romania wheeled deathtrap

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#1 Panzermann

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 0946 AM

to be built in a 50:50 joint venture between Rheinmetall and Romanian state company.
 

TBT 8×8 AGILIS un pic mai aproape
George GMT 4 mai 2017 - 6:39
 


Agilis-8x8-500x430.jpg
Din surse apropiate companiei Romania Military Vehicle Systems SA (RMVS) putem astazi sa dezvaluim mai multe amanunte despre oferta companiei romanesti pentru MApN, in cadrul programului national de dotare cu transportoare blindate TBT 8×8.
In primul rand noua compania RMVS este o societate pe actiuni romaneasca, avand ca actionari Ministerul Economiei, cu 50% din actiuni si Rheinmetall Land Systems cu 50%. Locul desfasurarii activitatii va fi Uzina Mecanica Moreni. In procesul de productie vor fi atrase si alte companii romanesti.
 
Noul TBT 8×8 Agilis va fi produs in Romania, astfel:
-80% din valoarea adaugata a productiei se realizeaza in Romania, doar motorul si drive-lineul urmand sa vina din import;
-logistica si mentenanta vor fi integrate 100% in Romania pentru intreaga durata de viata a transportorului pana in 2055. Perioada planificata de MApN pentru folosirea transportoarelor  pe platforma Agilis este de 20 de ani;
-drepturile de proprietate intelectuala asupra AGILIS 8×8 vor apartine in proportie de 100% Statului Roman, prin Ministerul Economiei;
-dezvoltarea noului transportor va incepe anul acesta urmand ca in 2020 primele Agilis sa intre in dotarea Fortelor Terestre;
-standardul tehnologic va fi cel al anului in care transportorul va intra in productia de serie, respectiv 2020;
vehiculul va fi construit in 7 variante/derivate, astfel: transportor blindat pentru trupe amfibiu si neamfibiu, punct comanda mobil, platforma pentru aruncator de bombe calibrul 120mm, evacuare medicala, cercetare CBRN si vehicul tehnic pentru evacuare-reparatii:
AGILIS-variante-500x648.jpg
-programul se incadreaza in prevederile legii offsetului si va duce la rambursarea integrala a mijloacelor financiare investite de statul roman;
-se vor crea, in mod direct, aproximativ 450 de noi locuri de munca atat in cadrul RMVS cat si in cadrul UM Moreni;
-planul de productie estimeaza ca Agilis, in lipsa unor comenzi suplimentare sau la export, va fi pe linia de productie pana in 2035;
in cazul in care guvernul roman va considera oportun se poate trece si la dezvoltarea unei variante 4×4.
Ca date tehnice avem:
IMAG1122-500x725.jpg
Asadar acesta este oferta inaintata de catre Romania Military Vehicles Systems catre Ministerul Economiei si Guvernul Roman. In acest stadiu MApNul este dispus sa cumpere viitorul transportor, dar aici sunt necesare doua precizari.
Prima ar fi ca din necesarul de 628 de transportoare blindate TBT 8×8 trebuie scazute transportoarele Pirahna IIIC deja achizitionate 33+14 si, posibil, viitoarele 96 de Pirahna IIIC necesare dotarii unei brigazi de infanterie, trei batalioane complete de infanterie motorizate, in mod uniform. Din informatiile noastre cele 96 Pirahna IIIC vor fi cumparate, ceea ce ar putea explica declaratia recenta a Ministrului Apararii cu privire la reducerea necesarului la doar 500 de masini 8×8.
In aceasta ipoteza ar ramane ca Agilis 8×8 sa fie fabricat in aproximativ 485 de exemplare, excludem aici eventuale exporturi sau suplimentarea comenzilor din partea Armatei. Este insa la fel de posibil ca parcul actual (cu siguranta cunoscut la data negocierii productiei) si viitor de Piranha IIIC sa fie deja exclus din calculul volumului productiei.
A doua precizare tine de MApN, minister care a spus ca este gata sa cumpere noul Agilis de indata ce producatorii sunt in masura sa inceapa livrarile, adica din 2020, daca va dispune (adaugam noi) de fondurile necesare.
In acest moment mai sunt necesare doar aprobarea Parlamentului, iar mai apoi o HG care sa reglementeze productia, finantarea etc, HG care ar fi gata si asteapta doar aprobarea.
 
Acum sa discutam si despre graficul de livrari asa cum il vede compania producatoare.
Astfel, pentru prototip avem ca plecare 2017 si termen final 2020, an in care va incepe productia de serie, dupa care vom avea:
-2020 intrarea in dotare a primelor 14 transportoare blindate Agilis 8×8 in varianta amfibie de baza;
-2021 46 Agilis amfibiu in varianta de baza;
-2022 44 TBT amfibiu in varianta de baza plus un transportor in varianta evacuare medicala (primul) si 4 Agilis centru de comanda mobil;
-2023 30 Agilis amfibiu transportor de trupe, 8 vehicule centru de comanda, 2 Agilis platforma pentru aruncatoare de bombe (probabil calibrul 120mm), 2 vehicule pentru cercetare CBRN si 3 transportoare pentru evacuare medicala.
Din 2025 vor intra in dotare si primele 22 de bucati Agilis 8×8 neamfibiu.
AGILIS-plan-livrare-500x317.jpg
Per total planul este gandit pentru 628 de vehicule dar asa cum am explicat mai sus este foarte posibil ca totalul sa fie usor diferit, dar deocamdata sa tinem cont de planurile initiale (628 transportoare blindate Agilis 8×8) si am ajunge ca in 2034 sa avem un total de: 24 vehicule pentru evacuare medicala, 192 de Agilis neamfibiu, 161 de vehicule amfibii, 90 transportoare pentru cercetarea CBRN, 40 centre de comanda mobile, 75 de platforme pentru aruncatoare si 46 de vehicule de recuperare-reparatie.
 
Necunoscutele programului Agilis
Nu stim inca care va fi nivelul standard de protectie cerut de Armata, putem insa sa speculam ca acesta va fi 2/3, adica nivel 2 (cu solutia de protectie anti-mina dezvoltat de ACTTM) sub burta si nivel 3 de protectie la carcasa (folosind si aici unele solutii dezvoltate tot de ACTTM in cadrul programului TBT 8×8). Ne referim la varianta amfibie. Foarte posibil ca protectia anti-mina/IED sa fie mai mare.
Nu cunoastem ce sistem de propulsie pe apa va folosi Agilis, aici putem insa sa fim aproape siguri ca solutia va veni via SAUR 2, adica un sistem de timp pump-jet, care a  dovedit in perioada de omologare a SAUR 2 o manevrabilitate foarte buna pe apa si o viteza de 11km/h.
Ramane de asemenea sa vedem ce sistem de armament in standard va prefera MApN: mitraliera calibrul mare, tun automat, rachete anti-tanc etc. Rheinmetall vad ca propune tunul Oerlikon KBA calibrul 25mmx137 (acelasi cu cel de pe MLI-84M), dar in turela Fieldranger.
Este foarte ciudat insa cum Armata si-a impartit flota de Agilis in doua: 192 de transportoare neamfibii si 161 amfibii, iar de aici putem specula (destul de educat as spune eu) ca vechiculele amfibii vor avea un grad de protectie decent (2/3 sau peste), in timp ce Agilisul neamfibiu se va duce spre un grad de protectie la carcasa de 4 chiar 5, ajungand astfel similar varului sau german Boxer, dar atunci intram pe taramul transportoarelor blindate aproape masini de lupta ale infanteriei, dar miscarea ar fi previzibila si poate chiar normala pentru noi.
Si bineinteles ar mai fi problema pretului transportorului. Aici cel mai probabil  se va depasi suma de 2 milioane de euro per bucata (la medie), dar deocamdata putem doar specula.
Cam acesta este planul Rheinmetall in Romania si sper din tot sufletul ca macar de aceasta data sa ne iasa si nou socoteala de acasa.
PS Si de ramarcat ca numele noului transportor blindat romanesc AGILIS a aparut pentru prima data intr-o conjunctura oficiala, dupa anuntarea lui pe RoMilitary anul trecut.
GeorgeGMT


https://www.rumaniam...ape#prettyPhoto

Edited by Panzermann, 11 October 2017 - 0950 AM.


#2 Panzermann

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 0959 AM


For those that do not speak Dracula there is always googlefish:
 

From sources close to the Romanian Military Vehicle Systems SA (RMVS), we can today reveal more details about the Romanian company's offer for the MApN within the national TBT 8 × 8 armored conveyor program.

First, the new company RMVS is a Romanian joint-stock company with 50% stake in the Ministry of Economy, 50% of Rheinmetall Land Systems and 50% in Rheinmetall Land Systems. The place of activity will be Moreni Mechanical Plant. Other Romanian companies will be attracted in the production process.

The new TBT 8 × 8 Agilis will be produced in Romania, as follows:

-80% of the added value of the production is made in Romania, only the engine and the drive-line to come from import;

-logistics and maintenance will be 100% integrated in Romania for the entire lifespan of the conveyor by 2055. The period planned by the MApN for the use of conveyors on the Agilis platform is 20 years;

-the intellectual property rights of AGILIS 8 × 8 will be 100% owned by the Romanian State through the Ministry of Economy;

-the development of the new transporter will begin this year, and in 2020 the first Agilis to enter the Land Forces;

- the technological standard will be the one of the year in which the carrier will enter production in series, ie 2020;

- the vehicle will be built in 7 variants / derivatives, as follows: Armored conveyor for amphibious and non-amphibious troops, mobile command point, 120mm caliber bomb disposal platform, medical evacuation, CBRN research and technical vehicle for evacuation-repair:

-the program is subject to the provisions of the offset law and will result in the full reimbursement of the funds invested by the Romanian state;

- directly create about 450 new jobs in both the RMVS and UM Moreni;

-the production plan estimates that Agilis, in the absence of additional orders or export, will be on the production line by 2035;

- if the Romanian government considers it appropriate, it may also be possible to develop a 4 × 4 variant.

As technical data we have:

So this is the offer submitted by Romania Military Vehicles Systems to the Ministry of Economy and the Romanian Government. At this stage, the MApN is willing to buy the future carrier, but two specifications are needed here.

The first is that of the need for 628 TBT 8 × 8 armored conveyors, the Pirahna IIIC already purchased - 33 + 14 - and possibly the upcoming 96 Pirahna IIIC needed to equip an infantry brigade, three full motorized infantry battalions, uniformly. From our information, the Pirahna IIIC 96 will be bought, which could explain the recent Defense Secretary's statement on reducing the need for just 500 8x8 cars.

In this hypothesis, it would remain as if the Agilis 8 × 8 were manufactured in about 485 copies, excluding any exports or supplementation of orders from the Army. However, it is as likely that the current (certainly known at the time of production) and the future Piranha IIIC park is already excluded from the production volume calculation.

The second mention is made by the MApN, a ministry that said he is ready to buy the new Agilis as soon as the producers are able to start delivering, that is, by 2020, if we have (we add) the necessary funds.

At this point only Parliament approval is needed, and then an HG to regulate production, funding, etc., HG that would be ready and only waiting for approval.

Now let's talk about the delivery schedule as the production company sees it.

Thus, for the prototype we have 2017 departure and the final term 2020, the year in which serial production begins, after which we will have:

-2020 - the entry of the first 14 Agilis 8x8 armored conveyors in the base amphibious version;

-2021 - 46 Amphibious Agilis in base variant;

-2022 - 44 TBT amphibian in the basic version plus a medical evacuation (first) and 4 Agilis mobile command center;

-2023 - 30 Agilis amphibious troop conveyor, 8 command center vehicles, 2 Agilis bomb disposal platform (possibly 120mm caliber), 2 CBRN research vehicles and 3 medical evacuation conveyors.

From 2025, the first 22 pieces of Agilis 8x8 will also come in handy.

Overall, the plan is thought for 628 vehicles, but as explained above, it is quite possible that the total is slightly different, but for the time being we have to take into account the initial plans (628 armored conveyors Agilis 8 × 8) and we will arrive in 2034 we have a total of 24 medical expedition vehicles, 192 non-amphibious vehicles, 161 amphibious vehicles, 90 CBRN research conveyors, 40 mobile command centers, 75 platforms for throwers and 46 recovery vehicles.

Unknown program Agilis

We do not yet know what the standard of protection required by the Army is, but we can speculate that it will be 2


somehow it FUBARs the last paragraphs. :wacko:



#3 Dark_Falcon

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 1015 AM

Boy can Google goof up; "120mm caliber bomb disposal platform", indeed.  :wacko:  Good to know though that Romania opted for the 120mm for its mortar vehicle.


Edited by Dark_Falcon, 11 October 2017 - 1015 AM.


#4 ink

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 1322 PM

Certainly looks the part and with production being in low-wage Romania it should compete well on the international market - esp. for countries with tight budgets.

#5 TOW-2

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 1512 PM

Wheeled death-traps are quite fashionable these days, it seems.



#6 mattblack

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 2352 PM

Certainly looks the part and with production being in low-wage Romania it should compete well on the international market - esp. for countries with tight budgets.



The Dacia Sandero of IFVs.

#7 Colin

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 0121 AM

Malaysia no doubt will be there only export customer



#8 Dark_Falcon

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 1050 AM

Malaysia no doubt will be there only export customer

 

If it enters production, given that it seems likely that Romania will go with the General Dynamics Piranha V:

 

 

Romania-General Dynamics agree to locally manufacture Piranha armored vehicle

By: Jaroslaw Adamowski

 

DER7G7QJTRG2RCSOKU232ONXG4.png

 

WARSAW, Poland ― The Romanian Ministry of Economy and General Dynamics European Land Systems have signed a memorandum of understanding under which the manufacturer will make Piranha V armored fighting vehicles at Romania’s state-owned Bucharest Mechanical Factory.

 

Romanian Economy Minister Gheorghe Simon said in a statement that the contract to jointly build eight-wheel drive vehicles will contribute to the modernization of Romania’s defense industry.

 

Under the plan, the AFVs are to be supplied to the Romanian Land Forces. As part of its ongoing efforts to replace Soviet-designed gear with new vehicles, the country’s military is seeking an initial delivery of some 227 AFVs, the Economy Ministry said in a statement sent to local news agency Agerpres.

 

Based in Madrid, Spain, General Dynamics European Land Systems is a business unit of General Dynamics and operates production facilities located in Austria, the Czech Republic, Germany, Spain and Switzerland. The company says it has a workforce of more than 1,800 employees.

 

Headquartered in Romania’s capital, Bucharest Mechanical Factory is part of the country’s leading defense group Romarm. The holding was established in 2000 with the aim to integrate the Romanian state-owned defense industry.

 


#9 chino

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 1010 AM

delete


Edited by chino, 17 October 2017 - 1014 AM.






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