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#41 lastdingo

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 1733 PM

Back in the 80's Mirage F.1 were better for interceptor and air policing duties in Spain than the F/A-18 because the latter had a much longer (IIRC 5 min for Mirage, 15 min for Hornet) time for take off preparations. Calibrating the INS was the issue IIRC.



#42 sunday

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 0351 AM

Back in the 80's Mirage F.1 were better for interceptor and air policing duties in Spain than the F/A-18 because the latter had a much longer (IIRC 5 min for Mirage, 15 min for Hornet) time for take off preparations. Calibrating the INS was the issue IIRC.

 

Source, please? Not all Spanish Mirage F1 had INSs in the 1980s.



#43 lastdingo

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 1201 PM

That's why.



#44 bd1

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 1432 PM

same preparations thing was said in some decade-old AF Monthly about USAF  F-5 agressor squadrons - they had long ago taken off, f-16-s (iirc) were still fumbling with switches



#45 sunday

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 1452 PM

And the source?


Edited by sunday, 19 September 2017 - 1453 PM.


#46 shep854

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 1459 PM

Interesting.  'Ready' birds are supposed to be 'cocked'--preflighted and set up so all that is required is engine start and roll.  5 minutes to wheels up, MAX is the US standard.



#47 Yama

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 1500 PM

Reportedly BulgarianAF MiG drivers were quite bemused when they were acquinted with NATO alert practises - MiG-21 would roar off the runway in few minutes, whilst F-16 would send a long time calibrating stuff, waiting for gyros etc...
Supposedly it was one reason why Swedish AF rejected F-16, it was not well suited for Swedish road bases, nor alert starts.

#48 RETAC21

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 1510 PM

Looks like 7 mins to scramble a Greek F-16 Block 50:

 

https://youtu.be/a6uWFB_qbWE

https://youtu.be/imEAOThGbUI



#49 lastdingo

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 1757 PM

Reportedly BulgarianAF MiG drivers were quite bemused when they were acquinted with NATO alert practises - MiG-21 would roar off the runway in few minutes, whilst F-16 would send a long time calibrating stuff, waiting for gyros etc...
Supposedly it was one reason why Swedish AF rejected F-16, it was not well suited for Swedish road bases, nor alert starts.

 
Some Warsaw Pact fighter units - including Eastern German ones - practised alerts so much that they were able to take off with an entire wing in 11 minutes (with toleration of maximum taxiing speed limit violations by a factor of two). East German army units were similar - like near-total evacuation of barracks within 10 minutes, including motor vehicles.
NATO appears to not have understood or known this until 1990.

Looks like 7 mins to scramble a Greek F-16 Block 50:

https://youtu.be/a6uWFB_qbWE
https://youtu.be/imEAOThGbUI


Modern INS systems use completely different technologies than 1970's and 1980's INS systems.

Edited by lastdingo, 19 September 2017 - 1759 PM.


#50 Yama

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 1830 PM

Even today, NATO 'quick reaction alert' only requires 15min readiness, whereas in old Warsaw pact, and many neutral air forces it meant 5 minutes readiness. However presumably any fighter can take off much quicker if really needed, screw INS and whatnot.

#51 MiloMorai

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 2205 PM

I did R&O on the CF-5 INS. It took 5 minutes for the gyros to spin up and another 10 minutes before they stabilized. That is when I started recording drift.



#52 RETAC21

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 1316 PM

I am starting to wonder about Dingo's source too. F/A-18A manual sez:

 

 (A) INS - CHECK a. Check waypoint 0 and magnetic variation. • QUAL should be OK within 6 minutes.

 

See here for an interview with a pilot on the alarm shack. For non-Spanish speakers, he says that they need to be in the air in less than 15 mins. from the alarm sounding but they could be brought to cockpit alert (5 mins) or be at the ready at the end of the runway (2 mins)

 

https://youtu.be/UqxVB3rWpYQ






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