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#1 Markus Becker

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 1619 PM

Fasten your seatbelts, lock and load(in memory of the Gunny) because Gun Jesus and Gun Santa have teamed up to give us all the (proto) light machine guns if WW1.

https://youtu.be/TVgkwQTo2n4

This will be epic.
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#2 bojan

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 1813 PM

http://www.tank-net....04#entry1414563


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#3 Panzermann

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 0332 AM

I buy an "E". ;)


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#4 rohala

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 0448 AM

I was surprised by how badly the Chauchats fared in the accuracy test. You'd expect that at least every first shot in every burst would hit the target somewhere.
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#5 Markus Becker

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 0603 AM

I was surprised by the American Chauchat. That doesn't look like a caliber conversion gone wrong. Another myth debunked. 


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#6 sunday

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 0612 AM

I was surprised by the American Chauchat. That doesn't look like a caliber conversion gone wrong. Another myth debunked. 

 

Some of the problems with the 30-06 Chauchats derived from its incredibly flimsy magazines. There was an Anvil video, made by the gunsmith that works with C&R, showing that.

 


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#7 Panzermann

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 0831 AM

I was surprised by how badly the Chauchats fared in the accuracy test. You'd expect that at least every first shot in every burst would hit the target somewhere.

 

they are shooting from a suboptimal postion. THe long legs lend themselves more to shooting over a hill or from a trench, foxhole etc. A nice flat known distance firing range with solid soil forces you into an awkward position behind the gun. But even with a better firng position, it is still an open bolt gun, so you have a delay while the heavy bolt moves forward, strips and feeds a cartridge into the chamber and only then fires.


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#8 Markus Becker

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 1249 PM

 

Some of the problems with the 30-06 Chauchats derived from its incredibly flimsy magazines.

 

That! The French make a mag that's far from ideal and the Americans make one that's even worse. At least I now assume it was the mags that caused the US gun to fail. 


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#9 sunday

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 1546 PM

Two more chapters online!

 

I found this more interesting - field stripping. Some surprises:

 


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#10 bojan

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 1602 PM

Again, if I give PKM 100 points only Maxim would pass 50.


Edited by bojan, 21 February 2019 - 1604 PM.

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#11 Chris Werb

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 1746 PM

I love watching videos where Ian et al strip early machineguns and semi/automatic rifles and have spent a fair amount on books on same. What always strikes me about the early examples is the immense amount of often exquisitely beautiful engineering that went into making them vs the insane complexity of their operation and/or field strip and reassembly procedures. It's one of the few areas of technology that have gotten dramatically simpler over time. I can draw the internals of an AR15 or AK47 from memory with a fair degree of accuracy, but it took me quite a few viewings comprehend this and I wouldn't know where to begin to draw it from memory:

https://youtu.be/ofZnarVq8pw?t=442


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#12 Chris Werb

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 1751 PM

Again, if I give PKM 100 points only Maxim would pass 50.

 

The big surprise for me was the Lewis.


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#13 sunday

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 1831 PM

I love watching videos where Ian et al strip early machineguns and semi/automatic rifles and have spent a fair amount on books on same. What always strikes me about the early examples is the immense amount of often exquisitely beautiful engineering that went into making them vs the insane complexity of their operation and/or field strip and reassembly procedures. It's one of the few areas of technology that have gotten dramatically simpler over time. I can draw the internals of an AR15 or AK47 from memory with a fair degree of accuracy, but it took me quite a few viewings comprehend this and I wouldn't know where to begin to draw it from memory:

https://youtu.be/ofZnarVq8pw?t=442

 

Making things simple is difficult.


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#14 Chris Werb

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 1845 PM

 

I love watching videos where Ian et al strip early machineguns and semi/automatic rifles and have spent a fair amount on books on same. What always strikes me about the early examples is the immense amount of often exquisitely beautiful engineering that went into making them vs the insane complexity of their operation and/or field strip and reassembly procedures. It's one of the few areas of technology that have gotten dramatically simpler over time. I can draw the internals of an AR15 or AK47 from memory with a fair degree of accuracy, but it took me quite a few viewings comprehend this and I wouldn't know where to begin to draw it from memory:

https://youtu.be/ofZnarVq8pw?t=442

 

Making things simple is difficult.

 

 

Especially if you're German :)


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#15 GregShaw

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 1949 PM

 

Again, if I give PKM 100 points only Maxim would pass 50.

 

The big surprise for me was the Lewis.

 

How bad the BAR field strip was a shock, as was said it virtually required a detail stript to remove the bolt. 


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#16 sunday

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Posted 22 February 2019 - 0323 AM

 

 

I love watching videos where Ian et al strip early machineguns and semi/automatic rifles and have spent a fair amount on books on same. What always strikes me about the early examples is the immense amount of often exquisitely beautiful engineering that went into making them vs the insane complexity of their operation and/or field strip and reassembly procedures. It's one of the few areas of technology that have gotten dramatically simpler over time. I can draw the internals of an AR15 or AK47 from memory with a fair degree of accuracy, but it took me quite a few viewings comprehend this and I wouldn't know where to begin to draw it from memory:

https://youtu.be/ofZnarVq8pw?t=442

 

Making things simple is difficult.

 

 

Especially if you're German :)

 

 

Only sometimes.

 

Mauser actions are quite simple, robust, and reliable. MG34, despite being horribly expensive to make, has a straightforward field stripping. MG42 too, and it was quite cheap.

 

Swiss, on the other hand...


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#17 Chris Werb

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Posted 22 February 2019 - 0446 AM


 


 


I love watching videos where Ian et al strip early machineguns and semi/automatic rifles and have spent a fair amount on books on same. What always strikes me about the early examples is the immense amount of often exquisitely beautiful engineering that went into making them vs the insane complexity of their operation and/or field strip and reassembly procedures. It's one of the few areas of technology that have gotten dramatically simpler over time. I can draw the internals of an AR15 or AK47 from memory with a fair degree of accuracy, but it took me quite a few viewings comprehend this and I wouldn't know where to begin to draw it from memory:

https://youtu.be/ofZnarVq8pw?t=442

 
Making things simple is difficult.
 
 
Especially if you're German :)
 
 
Only sometimes.
 
Mauser actions are quite simple, robust, and reliable. MG34, despite being horribly expensive to make, has a straightforward field stripping. MG42 too, and it was quite cheap.
 
Swiss, on the other hand...

Id take issue with the Mauser being simple. The Mauser 98 bolt is unnecessarily complex and requires a lot of machining operations. All things being equal a Carcano would be much simpler to make and would be just as effective as a weapon despite having much looser tolerances everywhere but the locking lugs. If you want to see a German take on making a bolt gun unnecessarily complex, have a look at the Blaser R93. Just don't buy one unless you want to lose your eyesight and have your face reconfigured :(
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#18 Chris Werb

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Posted 22 February 2019 - 0451 AM


 


Again, if I give PKM 100 points only Maxim would pass 50.

 
The big surprise for me was the Lewis.
 
How bad the BAR field strip was a shock, as was said it virtually required a detail stript to remove the bolt. 
I thought the main reason the Remington Model 8 didn't make it to general issue was it's terrible stripping procedure, until I watched that BAR segment. What I find strange is that I have read extensively about the BAR and don't recall ever reading any complaints about takedown and reassembly.
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#19 rmgill

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Posted 22 February 2019 - 0454 AM

Besa is also quite simple. 


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#20 sunday

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Posted 22 February 2019 - 0536 AM

(...)
I thought the main reason the Remington Model 8 didn't make it to general issue was it's terrible stripping procedure, until I watched that BAR segment. What I find strange is that I have read extensively about the BAR and don't recall ever reading any complaints about takedown and reassembly.

 
David Hackworth wrote enthusiastically on the BAR service in Korea. I wonder how often a takedown of the order seen in the video was necessary.
 

(...)

Id take issue with the Mauser being simple. The Mauser 98 bolt is unnecessarily complex and requires a lot of machining operations. All things being equal a Carcano would be much simpler to make and would be just as effective as a weapon despite having much looser tolerances everywhere but the locking lugs. If you want to see a German take on making a bolt gun unnecessarily complex, have a look at the Blaser R93. Just don't buy one unless you want to lose your eyesight and have your face reconfigured :(

 
There is simplicity of use, and there is simplicity of manufacture. Take the MG34 and the MG42. Both are easy to use, but the -42 is easier to manufacture.

I know little of the Blaser action. I know its locking system uses claws in a way similar to a machine tool, a simple solution, and remember reading about too hot loads making the action to fail.


Edited by sunday, 22 February 2019 - 0538 AM.

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