Jump to content


Photo

Chieftain Questions


  • Please log in to reply
1288 replies to this topic

#1281 Panzermann

Panzermann

    REFORGER '79

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,599 posts

Posted 27 September 2019 - 0850 AM

From Bovington twitter account:

 

https://pbs.twimg.co...&name=4096x4096

 

The Khalid: UK developed, used by Jordan, but designed for Iran. The Islamic Revolution in Iran resulted in the order being cancelled in February 1979. Jordan stepped in and ordered 274.

 

This version had a CV12 with 1,200HP (close twice of early vehicles) and a TN37 gearbox. OTOH there are no major improvement in gunner's sensors.

 

 

But the TC seems to have his own periscope sight with looking at the size maybe a thermal or at least light amplifier installed? Might even run a laser range finder through that.


  • 0

#1282 Stuart Galbraith

Stuart Galbraith

    Just Another Salisbury Tourist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 55,305 posts

Posted 27 September 2019 - 0900 AM

 

Bronze green.

 
But the rusty examles in the yard of the factory and photos  from pparades adn the Iran-Iraq war show them in sand coour most of the time. And considereing the terrain, dark green does not make much sense to me in Iran.
 

The Persians want to be the British Army. It's a matter of deep frustration to them I gather.

They probably make their own bagged charges. It's not that hard.

 
The porpellant charges are probably the least of their worries as the iranian army and revolutionary gurads use artillery pieces with bagged charges and I think they mnaufacrzure their own ammo for these. Getting grenades and APFSDS for the old L11 cannon is more the problem I think.

 

 

They maybe want to invade Europe? :)

 

I think they will almost certainly be using something based on the old L15 APDS round. Of course they are inventive people, if they bought an L23 on ebay I dont doubt they could reverse engineer it of course. There was a HEAT round they wanted developed at one time, but I dont know if they ever took delivery of it, let alone still use it.


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 27 September 2019 - 0905 AM.

  • 0

#1283 Stuart Galbraith

Stuart Galbraith

    Just Another Salisbury Tourist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 55,305 posts

Posted 27 September 2019 - 0904 AM

 

From Bovington twitter account:

 

https://pbs.twimg.co...&name=4096x4096

 

The Khalid: UK developed, used by Jordan, but designed for Iran. The Islamic Revolution in Iran resulted in the order being cancelled in February 1979. Jordan stepped in and ordered 274.

 

This version had a CV12 with 1,200HP (close twice of early vehicles) and a TN37 gearbox. OTOH there are no major improvement in gunner's sensors.

 

 

But the TC seems to have his own periscope sight with looking at the size maybe a thermal or at least light amplifier installed? Might even run a laser range finder through that.

 

 

I forget the name of it  (condor rings a bell I think), but it was an image intensifier. Pretty good one for the day if I remember rightly. I dont believe (though I will not assert) it had a laser rangefinder, or had a hunter killer mode as you Germans had with the Leopard 2. But it was reasonable setup for the day. When you compare it to what the Americans had in 1979, it wasnt bad at all really. I dont think our Chieftains had much more than an II swap sight before they got TOGS come to that.


  • 0

#1284 alejandro_

alejandro_

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,099 posts

Posted 27 September 2019 - 1118 AM

Pretty good one for the day if I remember rightly. I dont believe (though I will not assert) it had a laser rangefinder, or had a hunter killer mode as you Germans had with the Leopard 2

 

Fist series of Leopard 2 did not have a thermal camera anyway, being equipped with an infrared system (PZB 200).

 

the main interesting difference is they dropped IFCS (or was it CCS, I cant remember) in it before flogging it to Jordan. It was a good tank, what Chieftain should have been from the start.

 

Maybe they dropped new FCS to keep cost down. The UK also provided a nice 44 million £ discount, which had been paid by Iran to develop the variant. I have checked Hayne's book - production Khalid did have the IFCS with laser.

 

To be fair there were no 1,200 HP engines around when Chieftain was fielded. Most models were 650-800. It was only in the late 70s that they appeared.


  • 0

#1285 Stuart Galbraith

Stuart Galbraith

    Just Another Salisbury Tourist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 55,305 posts

Posted 27 September 2019 - 1143 AM

Alejandro, they put IFCS in as a replacement for what Shir1 was built with, which was steam gunnery. OK, so it also had the RMG, but that was about it. I think they dropped IFCS in to make it a better sell to get it off the lot.

 

Yeah, it had IFCS with the laser, I think what Panzerman was discussing was a laser in the commanders viewer, the condor sight. I dont believe it had that. I think the only means of target designation was via the commanders cupola.

 

Yeah, fair point about engines, but in truth rather more than the power was the reliability. I think L60 matured into an average engine by the end, but the tank was damn near obsolete by the time they got there. :D


  • 0

#1286 Panzermann

Panzermann

    REFORGER '79

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,599 posts

Posted 27 September 2019 - 1239 PM

BUt the Chieftains delivered to Jordania did get the CONDOR sight later iirc? Did they get thermals like the British ones?

 

 

 

 

 

 

The iranian Chieftain  even has a very barebones wikipedia page:

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Mobarez_tank

 

 

Iran still has about 200 Chieftains, I wonder if it is really worth it to put so much work in the old tanks?


  • 0

#1287 Stuart Galbraith

Stuart Galbraith

    Just Another Salisbury Tourist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 55,305 posts

Posted 27 September 2019 - 1335 PM

No, we never gave Jordan Chieftains. We did give Challenger 1 in the late 90's though.

Jordan certainly had Chieftains, but they were captured Iranian nes, given by Iraq sometime in the 80's. They don't seem to have used them, and were somewhat embarrassed by them in told.

I think they are updating them for political reasons more than anything else.
  • 0

#1288 Panzermann

Panzermann

    REFORGER '79

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,599 posts

Posted 27 September 2019 - 1341 PM

No, we never gave Jordan Chieftains. We did give Challenger 1 in the late 90's though.

​

 

Yeah well the Khalid, which is a Chieftain with the tracks and engine from Challenger. Plus the chieftains given by Iraq, but those were close to useless to Jordania I think. No spare parts, different fire control, different engine etc etc.


  • 0

#1289 Stuart Galbraith

Stuart Galbraith

    Just Another Salisbury Tourist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 55,305 posts

Posted 28 September 2019 - 0153 AM

IFCS would be a doddle to bolt into Iranian Chieftains, they were pretty much the same as late production British Army Chieftains. But they didn't want them, they didn't use them.

 

Khalid has the II sight as said, which was regarded to be a good system before TI came along. They were in that regard superior in night fighting capability to British Army Chieftains.

 

To be honest, ive always thought the rear deck looked a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut. If they had found a neater installation maybe the MOD would have bought it for the Chieftain fleet.


  • 0