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Another H&k Upgrade Program For The Sa80


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#1 Dawes

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 1908 PM

Guess there's still life in the old girl yet:

 

https://www.thefirea...british-sa80a3/


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#2 bojan

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 0559 AM

Or polishing a turd :)


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#3 Panzermann

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 0604 AM

Or polishing a turd :)

 

The A2 seems to be at least a useable rifle. So with german space magic™ cou actually can polish a turd.  ^_^

 

 

On a more serious note, H&K is the logical choice, as they already performed the A2 improvements (actually rebuilds). Fiscally responsible would have been a replacement with  anew rifle already back then, but try to get that through MoD and parliament. 


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#4 bojan

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 0849 AM

Only "Kraut Space Magic" needed was some quality control and some changes by someone who actually saw some sort of rifle before designing it (most of the SA80 design team was not specialist in firearms...)... :P That abomination is AR-18 inside, and we know that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with AR-18.

In the end it would have been easier and cheaper to get new rifles at the time of the first rebuild. Only problem, would have probably ended with G36... Oops. :)

Oh, and lets' don't mention (too much) UK Minimi acquisition, where people on the pointy end prefered hauling 12kg of FN-MAG vs Minimi, cause Minimis were falling apart and did not have enough effective range in Afghanistan. Guess it was better than L86A1 at least...


Edited by bojan, 18 September 2019 - 0851 AM.

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#5 Chris Werb

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 1344 PM

It almost certainly just means more A3s. 45000 in the first batch is nowhere near enough to go round.


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#6 Colin

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 1604 PM

refresher https://www.youtube....Rop6CRwY&t=458s


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#7 GregShaw

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 1923 PM

Or polishing a turd :)

Lipstick on a pig.


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#8 Colin

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 2144 PM

So it sounds like the only remaining bits from original rifle will be the lower receiver?


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#9 R011

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 2151 PM

Maybe Colt Canada could make a few minor mods: just change the barrel, receiver, magazines, furniture, and rails to something compatible with the rifles the British special forces use.
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#10 shep854

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 1036 AM

I believe Colt Canada fixed it for British special forces by replacing everything except the mags... ;)
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#11 Chris Werb

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 1210 PM

I believe Colt Canada fixed it for British special forces by replacing everything except the mags... ;)

 

No, it was H&K and they DID change the mags to their own steel magazines :)  Those mags were then subsequently replaced by Magpul E-mags.


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#12 bojan

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 1722 PM

IIRC British SF used Colt Canada C7, leaving L85s to the proles.


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#13 shep854

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 2219 PM

IIRC British SF used Colt Canada C7, leaving L85s to the proles.

Exactly ;)
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#14 R011

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 2230 PM

IIRC British SF used Colt Canada C7, leaving L85s to the proles.

Exactly ;)

What Shep said.
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#15 Chris Werb

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 0625 AM

 

IIRC British SF used Colt Canada C7, leaving L85s to the proles.

Exactly ;)

 

 

The US SF also went for their own rifles, then partially backtracked cancelling the SCAR-L. Even then they had the M4A1 as general issue long before the rest of the Army. Unsurprisingly, the SF's requirements were different - particularly to fire a larger number of rounds full auto in a shorter time to break contact with the enemy.


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#16 bojan

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 1528 PM

Unlike the British with L85A1 US had a functional rifle for the people not in SF.


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#17 Gavin-Phillips

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 1610 PM

I've recently finished reading the book Operation Mayhem by Steve Heaney and Damien Lewis; there is certainly no end of comments in there about how much the SA80 is much maligned by the soldiers using it.  Discussing anything from the sights fogging up to the weapon rusting at a visible pace.  A great read that one.


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#18 shep854

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 0820 AM

You may have to dig around the Tubes a bit, but Ian did a number of videos on the L85 and its development.  It's enlightening viewing.

----

RE: Big Army adoption of the M4 over the M16...I think there's at least a bit of 'cool gear' envy driving the process.


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#19 bojan

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 1002 AM

Maybe, but it was also a reality of finally understanding that weight and compactness matter far more than range performances at 500+m and that rifles are basically used as PDWs today, so nothing of note was lost with M16->M4 transition. One of the few things US has done (relatively) recently that actually makes sense.


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#20 Chris Werb

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 1115 AM

Unlike the British with L85A1 US had a functional rifle for the people not in SF.

 

It would have made a lot more sense and saved a fortune to go entirely C7/8 with the rest of the armed forces.


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