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More new camo uniforms?


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#21 Skywalkre

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 1155 AM

The Army should be embarrassed that Congress of all people is telling them to do this and that they're absolutely right (when talking about influence on military decisions I'm usually one to argue to get Congress out of the cycle completely, maybe I should reconsider). The idea to go with one pattern for the ACU always struck me as ridiculously naive and cheap.
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#22 FOXMG

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 1459 PM

Must be why all the mole people in the bowels on the Pentagon are wearing them.


Dunno, never been down there. Thought they wore B's at the Pentagon? But like I said never been there (except the outside for the Army 10 miler, and I was pretty drunk at the time)

After 3 days in the field all the uniforms looks the same anyways. Dirty and oily. They all have that standard grey dirt color. BDU's, DCU's, and ACU's.

They do have fire resitant ACU's (FRACU's), they are issued to deploying peoples. I just got mine last week with my 2nd RFI. I havnt worn them, just packed them and sent them on their way. We also got the IOTV to replace our IBA's. So far not a big fan of that either, cant carry anything on it and wayyy too much armor. Did 15 mile ruck march in it and my shoulders were killing me. Im used to rucking also, so not like my body isnt conditioned for that.


The combat shirt is money though.
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#23 Noble713

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 2235 PM

The Army wanted a digital pattern, IIRC, which Multicam isn't.


Nitpick: Multicam is in fact digital, it just isn't pixelated.

I say put everyone in ACU-cut ODgreen uniforms, and add lightweight camo smocks depending on the region the unit is deploying to. Moisture-wicking shirts as a base layer will keep everyone reasonably cool, especially since we are moving towards lighter body armor.

We switched to the UDP (Universal Disruptive Pattern aka ACUPAT) to streamline our logistics, but it seems REALLY shortsighted to completely replace every uniform, piece of armor, and vest every 10 years when we invent the latest whizbang camo pattern. If everything is OD green, you only need to replace the camo smocks. Much cheaper in the long-term IMO.

People always looked at me funny for rocking green tac vests in my ACUs. Now here I am about to switch to the Marine Corps and my gear is still somewhat useful.
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#24 SCFalken

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 2313 PM

Now here I am about to switch to the Marine Corps


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Edited by SCFalken, 17 June 2009 - 2313 PM.

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#25 Corinthian

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 2337 PM

There was a discussion sometime on camo patterns at another board and it was mentioned that the digital pattern was conceived to reduce the effectiveness of thermal imagers. I found that claim odd, and an article (I think Wikipedia) was shown to me that mentions it. Do such uniforms (CADPAT, MARPAT, etc etc) really have an effect on thermal imagers?
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#26 Galloglass

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 0200 AM

RE: ACUs

Two things i can say about them (other than i hate'm.)

1) During the train up for my Iraqi PTT mission, i spent over a month at Camp Lejune. A good chunk of that time was spent on the (simply awesome) MOUT complex they have there...ferget the name :angry: .
During one evolution i positioned my SAW gunner in some rubble and sprinted away to check on something else. Not a minute later, i jog back to the vicinity of my SAW gunner and didn't see him. "GAWD Durnit" says I. "Lil SOB decided to go hang out with a buddy or something." I was about to get real pissed until i saw a red SOMETHING that didn't look like it belonged. Upon further inspection i realized it was the BFA on the end of the barrel! Sure as heck, my guy was there, all tucked into the rubble and damn near invisible to a cursory look. I missed him from about 10 meters away and i KNEW where he was. I was impressed. ACU works wonderfully in rubbled urban environments.
Now if we could only fight all our fights in rubbled concrete...we'd be good <_<

2) After a week in the same set of ACUs (or any uniform for that matter) getting greasy nasty funky and icky, the base camo pattern stops mattering ;) . Some of ya'll know what i mean :lol:
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#27 nigelfe

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 0452 AM

There's a long thread on arrse - QM about PECOC. There's some posts by guys who actually know what they are talking about being privy to real trials results.

One amusing story is that the Canadian digital cam that started the whole thing off was the result of a stuff up, the makers were sent the digitised pattern and zoomed it up for printing!
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#28 Guest_JamesG123_*

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 0528 AM

There was a discussion sometime on camo patterns at another board and it was mentioned that the digital pattern was conceived to reduce the effectiveness of thermal imagers. I found that claim odd, and an article (I think Wikipedia) was shown to me that mentions it. Do such uniforms (CADPAT, MARPAT, etc etc) really have an effect on thermal imagers?


No not at all. Supposedly the justification/explination is that the squares line up with the pixel elements and "blend in". But in order to do that, the elements must be perfectly aligned at exactly the right distance. I've never seen it actually work. In my experiance, digital camo patterns are no better at obscuring in IR than organic shaped ones.

I would buy the story that it was an accident that someone thought looked "cool" first.


I say put everyone in ACU-cut ODgreen uniforms, and add lightweight camo smocks depending on the region the unit is deploying to. Moisture-wicking shirts as a base layer will keep everyone reasonably cool, especially since we are moving towards lighter body armor.


I think you are on to something. I've though of a a body armor similar to the Bohn system of armored padding for motorcyclists.
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Basically its a meshy breathable jacket and pants that the armor panels are held and supported. On top of them go equipment and ammo pouches, and then a replaceable outer layer covers all with slots or openings to access the gear. You can supply not only different colors and patterns but also different weights and water resistance to accomodate weather conditions.
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#29 Ivanhoe

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 1029 AM

I say put everyone in ACU-cut ODgreen uniforms, and add lightweight camo smocks depending on the region the unit is deploying to. Moisture-wicking shirts as a base layer will keep everyone reasonably cool, especially since we are moving towards lighter body armor.


Rather than a regular camo smock, how about some kind of durable netting wrap? That way, all the under layers, from skivvies to rainwear, can be one or two base colors (say tan and flat dark earth). The netting would provide both coloration and texture. You could have a dozen different camo patterns in inventory, easy.
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#30 Dawes

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 1145 AM

The US went through WW2, Korea, and Vietnam with the great majority of personnel wearing plain green uniforms. I think Israel still uses them. A camo pattern uniform would admittedly offer better concealment in the right environment, but wouldn't monotone green (or maybe tan, gray, etc.) be acceptable as a general-purpose color?
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#31 rmgill

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 1156 AM

A camo pattern uniform would admittedly offer better concealment in the right environment, but wouldn't monotone green (or maybe tan, gray, etc.) be acceptable as a general-purpose color?



Field Grey?


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:unsure:
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#32 Steven P Allen

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 1310 PM

How 'bout Butternut?

(Though I think the blues are more stylish ;) )
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#33 SCFalken

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 1413 PM

Field Grey?

:unsure:


At some point, someone is going to have to "reclaim" grey and black from Hitler.

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Edited by SCFalken, 18 June 2009 - 1413 PM.

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#34 SCFalken

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 1432 PM

How 'bout Butternut?

(Though I think the blues are more stylish ;) )


Khaki. Pith helmets replacing berets in garrison.


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#35 SCFalken

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 1446 PM

http://en.wikipedia...._trial_patterns


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#36 Lampshade111

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 1646 PM

Honestly it does not seem that bad.


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#37 George Newbill

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 1952 PM

I am still a big Multicam fan. One more thing the Tan/Black small splotches give the Multicam a tiger stripe effect at night.
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#38 T19

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 2007 PM

There's a long thread on arrse - QM about PECOC. There's some posts by guys who actually know what they are talking about being privy to real trials results.

One amusing story is that the Canadian digital cam that started the whole thing off was the result of a stuff up, the makers were sent the digitised pattern and zoomed it up for printing!

Where did you hear that story, urban legends?

CANPAD was developed over the years by Defense Research. It was designed using colour sat pictures of areas and merging and phasing so that the base colours showed no recognizable pattern

It is a copyrighted process that has been sold to the US Army and Marines.

#39 SCFalken

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 2018 PM

Where did you hear that story, urban legends?

CANPAD was developed over the years by Defense Research. It was designed using colour sat pictures of areas and merging and phasing so that the base colours showed no recognizable pattern

It is a copyrighted process that has been sold to the US Army and Marines.


Pffft! That's the urban legend. Canada doesn't have satfeeds in their igloos.



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Edited by SCFalken, 18 June 2009 - 2018 PM.

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#40 Corinthian

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 2019 PM

James: Copy that. I found the claim odd and thought it was Sparky-esque BS because AFAIK thermal imagers can "see" because of the heat emanating from the subject, regardless of camo pattern. I'd understand if it were image intensifiers, but thermal and IR....

Honestly it does not seem that bad.
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Holy smokes, that is effective!
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