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its pretty much official now: Iran is making nukes.


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#1 dejawolf

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 1357 PM

http://www.washingto...d=moreheadlines
can we bomb them now?
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#2 Archie Pellagio

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 1530 PM

"I'm shocked! Shocked to find out nuclear weapons research is going on here!
"Here are your launch codes sir..."
"Kheyli Mamnun"
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#3 shep854

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 2045 PM

Wait until they test. They will be hard pressed to hide that.


Hopefully they won't test in Tel Aviv. :mellow:
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#4 Rod

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 2243 PM

They won't unless they want Israel to cure Teheran's traffic problems.

Hopefully they won't test in Tel Aviv. :mellow:


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#5 Guest_JamesG123_*

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 0026 AM

Not much of a suprise there. The Iranian nuclear program is probably the world's worst kept secret.

I think they ought to stop being coy, withdrawl from the non-proliforation treaty, and say, " Yeah, [email protected]#kers were're building da bomb. What you gonna do 'bout it"?

The odds of "us" doing anything besides whine are slim to none. I personally like this development. It takes an invasion or other unwise military intervention off the table.

Atomic fences make for good neighbors...
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#6 Marek Tucan

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 0057 AM

Atomic fences make for good neighbors...


They also make for invulnerable bullies.
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#7 philgollin

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 0149 AM

Look, I think that Iran is as idiotic as everyone here does, but I will point out (yet) again that there is nothing illegal about producing a nuclear weapon and there is no legal basis to attack someone who has one, unless one has evidence that they are actually going to use it.

I wish people would just try to think what a nuclear exchange - even just one each side (some hope) would involve.

.
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#8 FOXMG

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 0223 AM

[quote name='philgollin' date='Tue 15 Dec 2009 0649' post='731275'

I wish people would just try to think what a nuclear exchange - even just one each side (some hope) would involve.

.
[/quote]

Lots of glass hopefully. :)

Seriously though, is nuclear war that much more destructive than present day conventional or chemical warfare? I understand radiation the radiation hazards of course for long term effects. However modern day warfare leaves alot of hazards on the battlefield. Some alot more prevalent and dangerous than radiation.

As for killing people, well dead is dead no matter how you die. I would rather it be a nuke that take me than nerve agent thats for sure. Im not advocating nuclear war, just wondering if we have not closed the gap between conventional and nuclear war in sheer destructiveness.
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#9 Guest_JamesG123_*

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 0324 AM

Beyond the death and long term hazards and environmental damage, crossing the nuclear threshold (again) will set a bad precident and remove much of the taboo against their use.
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#10 Tommy Bennett

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 0416 AM

"We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when,
but I know we'll meet again, some sun - ny day...."
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#11 Mote

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 0422 AM

They also make for invulnerable bullies.


And since Iran can close the Strait of Hormuz pretty much at will, and America is not too terribly interested in ten dollar a gallon gasoline, what exactly changes?
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#12 Guest_JamesG123_*

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 0512 AM

Our ability to do anything about ala "The tanker war".
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#13 Corinthian

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 0559 AM

And since Iran can close the Strait of Hormuz pretty much at will, and America is not too terribly interested in ten dollar a gallon gasoline, what exactly changes?


It's all part of fighting climate change. Iran closes the strait, petrol prices go up, people are forced to use smaller, hybrid cars. Power is switched to renewables. And if that's not enough, nuclear winter is always an option.
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#14 Steve Crandell

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 0629 AM

Of course, all this overlooks the important fact, Iran is not going to use them on Tel Aviv, simply because they know damn well what the Red Sea pedestrians will do to them. And the world would cheer them on.


You are making an assumption that that will deter them. If one truly believes that everyone killed by an Isreali counterstrike will be come a Martyr for all eternity and live in extasy with their <fill in number> virgins, why not do it? I believe that is the real danger here, because these true believers are actually in power in Iran.
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#15 Kenneth P. Katz

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 0726 AM

Let's recall a famous quote by Ayatollah Khomeni:

"We do not worship Iran, we worship Allah. For patriotism is another name for paganism. I say let this land [Iran] burn. I say let this land go up in smoke, provided Islam emerges triumphant in the rest of the world."

Of course, all this overlooks the important fact, Iran is not going to use them on Tel Aviv, simply because they know damn well what the Red Sea pedestrians will do to them. And the world would cheer them on.


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#16 Guest_JamesG123_*

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 0726 AM

Khomeni is long dead and buried. They are now in the 2nd or 3rd succession of leadership, and it is now an entrenched bureaucratic theocracy. Those in power in Iran are comfortable old men who have enjoyed the power and privilege they wield. They use hotheaded young men like Amajidajad the IRG, and Hezbollah as tools to achieve their ends with regards to the relative power and influence of the Iranian state internally and internationally. The only danger here is if we (or anything) threatens their status quo.

Edited by JamesG123, 15 December 2009 - 0731 AM.

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#17 Cookie Monster

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 0922 AM

Actually, the danger now is that we will see a gradual takeover over the country's reins by the military/police revolutionary guards, the IRGC and the Pasadaran. The ayatollahs are in danger of being pushed out and being made irrelevant.

There is a huge behind the scenes power play between the Ayatollahs, the conservatives, reformists, and the Republican Guards and right now the Republican guards hold most of the cards since they control most sectors of the economy and right now they are supporting Ahmejiinad although they may change their mind when they see that Ahmejinad is actually hurting the economy.

The religious zeal that you saw in the early 80s have either burned out or was quashed in the brutal frontlines of the Iraq-Iran War. The religious diehards were, well, dying hard in the desert in human wave attacks against Iraq, which is probably a good thing for the whole world because it got rid of an entire generation of hotheads and zealots that would have caused a lot of trouble.
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#18 rmgill

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 0930 AM

Beyond the death and long term hazards and environmental damage, crossing the nuclear threshold (again) will set a bad precident and remove much of the taboo against their use.


Yeah, because the Iranian Govenrment is all broken up about taboos.

Posted Image

Edited by rmgill, 15 December 2009 - 0930 AM.

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#19 Guest_JamesG123_*

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 1311 PM

To RMGill, Stuart and I were on the same wavelength.

Whats your point?

Posted Image
(Kent State BTW)

I'm not arguing that they are the "Good Guys", only that its not going to be the end of the world after the Iranians have the bomb, any more than after the Soviets or Pakistanis did.

Edited by JamesG123, 15 December 2009 - 1319 PM.

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#20 shep854

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 1552 PM

Comparisons to 1962 abound; Venezuela and Iran buddying up:
http://online.wsj.co...2815802722.html
The Tehran-Caracas Nuclear Axis
Ahmadinejad and Chávez: new evidence of a radioactive relationship.

Reference to the '62 Cuban Missile Crisis (Final paragraph):
"Forty-seven years ago, Americans woke up to the fact that a distant power could threaten us much closer to home. Perhaps it's time Camelot 2.0 take note that we are now on course for a replay."
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