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Flight Tj610 Crashed In The Sea.

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#161 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 0224 AM

Thats really interesting. Its like a low wing BAE146 :)


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#162 DB

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Posted 07 July 2019 - 1015 AM

Reminds me more of the P-1 Japanese maritime patrol aircraft.

 

Convair's aircraft interest me - the 990 more so than the 880. The former was very fast, more similar to the VC-10 than the plodding Boeing types.


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#163 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 07 July 2019 - 1041 AM

Yeah, I gather one Convair model in particular (I cant remember if it was the 880 or the 990) so worried Boeing they reputedly built the Boeing 720, a kind of high mach, low seat 707 to queer their pitch. It worked, even though they never built that many.

https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Boeing_720


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#164 RETAC21

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Posted 08 July 2019 - 1220 PM

Not related to the 737MAX but related to aviation safety in general:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=FF2Fhi-TT0o

https://www.youtube....h?v=35Zy_rl8WuM

https://www.youtube....h?v=FxXwqAm1a-Y

https://www.youtube....h?v=WfNBmZy1Yuc


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#165 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 08 July 2019 - 1228 PM

Thanks, those look really good. Might even make me a better Docs pilot.
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#166 Panzermann

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 1425 PM

Crash victim families seek new type certification for Boeing 737 Max
 
17 JULY, 2019 SOURCE: FLIGHT DASHBOARD BY: TOM RISEN WASHINGTON DC
Relatives of 737 Max crash victims want regulators to re-certificate the troubled Boeing narrowbody as a completely new aircraft, and only after crash investigations are complete.
 
That was one message delivered to US lawmakers on 17 July by relatives including Paul Njoroge, whose wife, three children and mother-in-law died in the March crash of Ethiopian Airlines flights 302.
 
The 737 Max is "too different from the original certified plane", Njoroge says in testimony during a hearing of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee's Aviation Subcommittee.
 
Njoroge testified "because my wife would have wanted me to", he says, adding that aircraft safety improvements "would be good for the world".
 
"Re-certification must take place in combination with a full legislative fix for the aviation safety system," Njoroge says.
 
Investigations into the crashes of Ethiopian Airlines flight 302 and Lion Air flight 610 remain ongoing, but evidence indicates automated flight control software created by Boeing automatically trimmed the aircraft into dives.
 
The software was designed to make the Max fly like the earlier-generation 737NG. The crashes killed 346 passengers and crew, prompting the global grounding of the 737 Max in March. Boeing is coordinating with FAA to certificate an updated version of the 737 Max’s flight control software.
 
Neither the FAA or Boeing commented about calls for regulators to certificate the 737 Max as a new aircraft.
 
The FAA in a statement echoed its stance that is "following a thorough process, not a prescribed timeline, for returning the Boeing 737 Max to passenger service".
 
"The FAA will lift the aircraft’s prohibition order when it is deemed safe to do so," the agency says. "FAA is continuing to evaluate Boeing’s software modification and is still developing necessary training requirements."
 
“We truly regret the loss of lives in both of these accidents and we are deeply sorry for the impact to the families and loved ones of those on board," Boeing says in a statement. "We are committed to working with the communities, customers and the aviation industry to help with the healing process.”
 
 
Lawmakers and regulators have also reviewed pilot training as a possible factor in the two crashes. Acting FAA chief Dan Elwell has said pilots were not given adequate information about the flight control software.
 
Njoroge criticises Boeing for shifting blame to "foreign pilot error" in the wake of the two crashes, calling it "an insult" and arguing that Boeing would never try to blame pilot error if those fatal crashes occurred in the US.
 
"Boeing and their apologists want to shift scrutiny from their single-minded quest for short-term profits over safety and place it on foreign pilots, who, like American domestic pilots, were left in the dark," he says. "The term 'foreign pilot error' is utter prejudice."
 
During the hearing Michael Stumo, whose daughter died in the Ethiopian Airlines crash, told lawmakers, "We the families are not experts but do have recommendations".
 
To prepare pilots to respond to updated 737 Max aircraft, the families want the FAA to require simulator training.
 
To ensure accountability for Boeing, Stumo says the committee should also offer protective subpoenas to allow whistleblowers to testify even if they agreed to a gag order as a condition of a settlement with the airframer.
 
Lawmakers and witnesses in previous hearings also voiced concerns about the FAA's organisation designation authorisation (ODA) – the system under which the FAA grants companies and their staff authority to oversee some aspects of certification. Njoroge says Congress should require FAA to return to the designate engineering representative model that existed before ODA was implemented in 2005.
 
"Fundamental safety improvements are affordable and well within our reach," Njoroge says. "The Senate should only confirm a new FAA administrator if that person agrees to safety reforms."
 
The Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation on 10 July voted 14 to 12 to advance President Donald Trump's nominee to head the FAA – former Delta Air Lines executive Steve Dickson. The Senate takes recess on 5 August, but a vote could come sooner.
 
When pressed by lawmakers about the 737 Max during his confirmation hearing in May, Dickson said “I will never certify an airplane that I wouldn’t put my family on.”
 
The House and Senate in previous hearings have questioned whether the FAA allowed Boeing to rush the 737 Max through certification.
 
Stumo says "it's becoming clearer as we learn about the plane" that it should be treated as a new aircraft.
 
"I think the FAA is taking their job seriously right now because the certification has been pushed back because they found additional problems," he says.
 
FAA pilots in June uncovered a data processing issue on Max aircraft that affected their ability to counteract a runaway stabiliser trim. The issue is separate but related to the MCAS flight control error because the runaway stabiliser procedure is the means by which pilots have been instructed to address the MCAS error that contributed to two fatal crashes.
 
Stumo and Njoroge say Boeing never directly contacted them or other relatives of the 346 people who died in the two 737 Max crashes. This, Njoroge says, contrasts starkly with the actions of Ethiopian Airlines, which sent letters of condolence to families.
 
From his perspective as an investment manager, Njoroge says Boeing viewed the crisis "only through the lens of its stock price".
 
House transportation committee chair Peter DeFazio says the committee plans to eventually have Boeing testify, but calls that "a work in progress" as lawmakers review information from Boeing and other sources.
 
The same day as Stumo and Njoroge testified Boeing announced it dedicated $50 million of a previously announced $100 million to provide near-term financial assistance to families of people who died in the crashes.
 
Stumo and Njoroge both say Boeing has been playing public relations rather than listening to the families of the victims about their needs.
 
 
"It is hard to trust Boeing with their apologies, given they have not reached out to us," Stumo says.
​

 

https://www.flightgl...tion-fo-459728/
 
 



FAA finds issue with 737 Max trim recovery procedures
 


26 JUNE, 2019

SOURCE: FLIGHT DASHBOARD

BY: JON HEMMERDINGER

BOSTON


US Federal Aviation Administration flight tests of the Boeing 737 Max have uncovered a data processing issue that affected government pilots' ability to perform the procedure for counteracting so-called "runaway stabiliser".
The runaway stabiliser procedure is the method by which Boeing has said pilots should respond to erroneous activation of the 737 Max's manoeuvring characteristics augmentation systems (MCAS) – the software that activated prior to two 737 Max crashes.

"During simulator testing last week at Boeing, FAA test pilots discovered an issue that affected their ability to quickly and easily follow the required recovery procedures for runaway stabiliser trim," a source familiar with the FAA's 737 Max evaluation tells FlightGlobal. "The issue was traced to how data is being processed by the flight computer."

(...)

​

 https://www.flightgl...ocedure-459331/
 

 

The 737MAX really seems borked.

 

 
 
 
Airbus now has troubles with its new A321NEO planes too:
 

A321neo operators alerted over 'excessive pitch' anomaly
 
17 JULY, 2019 SOURCE: FLIGHT DASHBOARD BY: DAVID KAMINSKI-MORROW LONDON
Airbus has introduced a temporary revision to A321neo flight manuals intended to prevent the possibility of the aircraft reaching excessive pitch attitudes.
 
The European Union Aviation Safety Agency has disclosed that the revision follows analysis of the re-engined type's elevator and aileron computer.
 
 
It has not elaborated on the situation beyond stating that "excessive" pitch could occur under certain conditions and "during specific manoeuvres".
 
EASA cautions that this could result in "reduced control" of the aircraft.
 
Airbus has issued temporary revisions to the aircraft's flight manual incorporating operational limitations.
 
EASA has ordered operators of the A321neo to amend the flight manuals accordingly, within 30 days.
 
The order covers both the CFM International Leap-1A and Pratt & Whitney PW1100G versions of the aircraft.
 
Airbus has issued seven relevant temporary revisions to the flight manual, on 21 June and 10 July. EASA says the safety measure is an interim action and could be followed by further requirements.
 
​

https://www.flightgl...tch-ano-459718/


Edited by Panzermann, 18 July 2019 - 1428 PM.

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#167 DB

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 0513 AM

The last bit on the A321 Neo is interesting, as it hints that Airbus has looked to see if their system has similar failure modes to those in the 737 Max. I wonder if this is prompted directly by the Boeing incidents, or by incident reports if excessive pitch.

If the former, then they're mitigating theoretical deficiencies. If the latter, then they actually have an active problem, and the limitations are more significant.
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#168 RETAC21

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 0516 AM

In Spanish, but interesting:

 

https://youtu.be/97GercHY6TY

 

https://youtu.be/L5y...xQEof2kHqVWa84h


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#169 Panzermann

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 1215 PM

Another rewrite for 737 Max software as cosmic bit-flipping tests glitch out systems – report
Third time's a charm?
from the reg: https://www.theregis..._flipping_test/
 


The Seattle Times, Boeing's hometown newspaper for many years, explains in detail how timid Federal Aviation Authority regulators eventually woke up and began doing their jobs in full after the two Boeing 737 Max crashes earlier this year.
During tests intended to check for malfunctions of the 737 Max's redesigned flight control software, the pilots still managed to lose control of a simulated aircraft during ground exercises. The test which caused them to lose control involved flipping bits in the memory of one of the Boeing's two flight control computers.
Flipping bits, the article explains, is intended to simulate a rare but not impossible situation where cosmic rays striking the memory of electronic components in flight can reset bits from 0 to 1. With 737s routinely flying up to 37,000ft, the possibility of this happening increases with altitude.

​

 

 
that links to this article in Seattle Times: https://www.seattlet...light-controls/


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#170 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 1248 PM

'This flight control system has 22 important updates and will now restart'.
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#171 sunday

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 1354 PM

Another rewrite for 737 Max software as cosmic bit-flipping tests glitch out systems – report
Third time's a charm?
from the reg: https://www.theregis..._flipping_test/
 
 

The Seattle Times, Boeing's hometown newspaper for many years, explains in detail how timid Federal Aviation Authority regulators eventually woke up and began doing their jobs in full after the two Boeing 737 Max crashes earlier this year.
During tests intended to check for malfunctions of the 737 Max's redesigned flight control software, the pilots still managed to lose control of a simulated aircraft during ground exercises. The test which caused them to lose control involved flipping bits in the memory of one of the Boeing's two flight control computers.
Flipping bits, the article explains, is intended to simulate a rare but not impossible situation where cosmic rays striking the memory of electronic components in flight can reset bits from 0 to 1. With 737s routinely flying up to 37,000ft, the possibility of this happening increases with altitude.

​

 

 
that links to this article in Seattle Times: https://www.seattlet...light-controls/

 

 
Yeah, rare but not impossible... now pull the other one. It is not as bad as satellite-onboard electronics, but it is something that has to be taken into account.
 

The National Council on Radiation Protection and Measurements reported that aircrew have the largest average annual effective dose (3.07 mSv) of all US radiation-exposed workers. 1 Other estimates of annual aircrew cosmic radiation exposure range from 0.2 to 5 mSv per year.


https://www.cdc.gov/...gradiation.html


Edited by sunday, 05 August 2019 - 1355 PM.

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#172 RETAC21

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 1615 PM

Near miss in BA flight in Valencia, one engine on fire,smoke in the cabin 19 wounded:

 

https://twitter.com/...421606320021504

 

Can't leave the plane without the baggage!

 

https://www.pprune.o...ml#post10537553


Edited by RETAC21, 05 August 2019 - 1617 PM.

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#173 Panzermann

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 1454 PM

another quality product from Boeing:
 

A Boeing whistleblower has claimed that passengers on its 787 Dreamliner could be left without oxygen if the cabin were to suffer a sudden decompression.
 
John Barnett says tests suggest up to a quarter of the oxygen systems could be faulty and might not work when needed.
 
He also claimed faulty parts were deliberately fitted to planes on the production line at one Boeing factory.
 
Boeing denies his accusations and says all its aircraft are built to the highest levels of safety and quality.

 

The firm has come under intense scrutiny in the wake of two catastrophic accidents involving another one of its planes, the 737 Max - the Ethiopian Airlines crash in March and Lion Air disaster in Indonesia last year.
 
Mr Barnett, a former quality control engineer, worked for Boeing for 32 years, until his retirement on health grounds in March 2017.
 
From 2010 he was employed as a quality manager at Boeing's factory in North Charleston, South Carolina.

(...)

Boeing whistleblower raises doubts over 787 oxygen system  (BBC)


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#174 Brasidas

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 1317 PM

This whole program, from beginning to end was an attempt to catch up with Airbus in the most timely manner possible, regardless of the shortcuts taken. If someone at Boeing doesn't go to prison, it's a miscarriage of justice.
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#175 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 0253 AM

It wont happen. It would mean admitting the FAA cooked the books for them.

 

The relationship between the FAA and Boeing seems to have been somewhat incestuous for a great deal of time, and nobody is in a hurry to clear that up. Look at how much leeway Boeing got over the rudder hardover incidents involving the 737 back in the early 90's.

https://en.wikipedia...7_rudder_issues


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 14 November 2019 - 0253 AM.

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#176 DB

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 1206 PM

I believe that it highlights a problem that the FAA and the NTSB for that matter have been complaining about for years.

 

Government will not fund the FAA to provide the level of support it needs to exercise its mandate correctly. They even suggested that until there was a pile of US bodies, it would never be properly funded.

 

the other problem is that the FAA's mandate isn't just regulation - it's promotion. The two thing are not obviously compatible, except of course a total failure in the first one leads to the inability to do the other.


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#177 Nobu

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 1449 PM

Look at how much leeway Boeing got over the rudder hardover incidents involving the 737 back in the early 90's.

 

It was not that long ago, but PR damage control is an order of magnitude more difficult now than it was then. Rest assured that whoever was running Boeing's version of it was rewarded, as the taint did not linger into the 2000s.

 

Over 400 dead in all of the incidents cited.


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#178 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 0254 AM

Yeah thats very true. Today you can have live video of a crash uploaded to facebook, from the passengers in the aircraft. Its only a matter of time before that happens, so the damage social media can do is an order of magnitude greater than the damage the rudder problems created, or going further back, Douglas's problems with the DC10 which were just as bad.

 

 

I believe that it highlights a problem that the FAA and the NTSB for that matter have been complaining about for years.

 

Government will not fund the FAA to provide the level of support it needs to exercise its mandate correctly. They even suggested that until there was a pile of US bodies, it would never be properly funded.

 

the other problem is that the FAA's mandate isn't just regulation - it's promotion. The two thing are not obviously compatible, except of course a total failure in the first one leads to the inability to do the other.

 

I believe that it highlights a problem that the FAA and the NTSB for that matter have been complaining about for years.

 

Government will not fund the FAA to provide the level of support it needs to exercise its mandate correctly. They even suggested that until there was a pile of US bodies, it would never be properly funded.

 

the other problem is that the FAA's mandate isn't just regulation - it's promotion. The two thing are not obviously compatible, except of course a total failure in the first one leads to the inability to do the other.

 

Yeah, its too close a relationship. They were actually trusting Boeing to do all the test work, and just signing off on it. Which strikes me as complete lunacy. Nobody trusts other industries to do things like that.

 

That said, the Max would probably have been going through testing around the same time as Budget sequestration was causing dire problems across Government services. I have to wonder if there is some connection.


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#179 Nobu

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 1405 PM

The relationship between the FAA and Boeing may also represent an indirect method by which a government can help a critical domestic corporation compete against international competition without facing WTO direct subsidy scrutiny.


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#180 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 1408 PM

Well the French seemingly thought so when the GAS came down on the ATR over icing problems. I thought it was sour grapes, but seeing how the rails were clearly greased for Boeing, perhaps not.
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