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Warships That Just Never Worked As Anticipated


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#1 Murph

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 0659 AM

I'll start, for the US, it was the Worchester class cruisers.  Designed as 6" AA cruisers, they never got the guns working as they wanted, and they were expensive ships to operate.  https://en.wikipedia...r-class_cruiser   https://www.history....rcester-ii.html


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#2 Rick

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 0705 AM

Sweden's entry  https://en.wikipedia...iki/Vasa_(ship)

 

For Japan, I would say the Taiho.

 

For the U.S. Civil War I would say the C.S.S. Hunley. 


Edited by Rick, 22 January 2020 - 0707 AM.

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#3 shep854

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 1410 PM

I think it would be safe to say that most ships which initially deployed new-generational technology were fairly problematic, given the inevitable problems and glitches waiting to spring on the crews.
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#4 Nobu

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 1439 PM

I would (reluctantly) add Yamato to the list.

 

The Freedom-class may eventually be added as well.


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#5 Daan

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 1522 PM

The French Surcouf:

17089220608_2d82774397_z.jpg


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#6 lastdingo

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 1554 PM

https://en.wikipedia...lad_Affondatore


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#7 DougRichards

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 1713 PM

HMS Captain

 

https://en.wikipedia..._Captain_(1869)


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#8 Argus

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 2325 PM

 

AFAIK the Captain business isn't that straightforward - all from memory - the professional scandal to those in the know at the time was the Court-Marshal whitewash to cover Milne's arse.
As I say it's been a while since I read up on all this, but IIRC Milne got the job because he was very well known and well connected, but no friend of Coles. So he would give the ship a critical trial and his report would have wide credibility. While the boys were aboard Captain as a counter balance, to signal the Admiralty were not taking sides and to prevent Milne from going to far in trying to discredit Coles.          

Everyone knew Captain was flawed long before she set sail, the lack of freeboard was obvious and the stability issues, while not scientifically confirmed and quantified until the inclining trials, were just as well appreciated empirically. This was still the sailing navy, they didn't need an engineer to tell them a ship was tender and crank, that they could tell through their feet with every gust of wind.  But weight growth and stability issues happened, one of Reed's successors had a Royal Yacht almost turn turtle in dock for much the same reason. So by the time the squadron sailed Captain was a technology demonstrator not a first of class... no, it's probably better to say she was always going to be a technology demonstrator and they hoped she'd also be a useful warship, but that didn't work so too-bad-how-sad lets see how the ideas work and if we can use them. The point being that Captain's seaworthiness was not seriously under trail, they knew she had issues, they were not idiots. 

Then Milne chose to sail his squadron including, I point out again, a ship with known freeboard and stability issues, close hauled into the guts of a dirty night in Bisquay, presumably to give Coles a thoroughly miserable night.... yeah we he got that bit right. 

 

Shane 


Edited by Argus, 22 January 2020 - 2330 PM.

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#9 GARGEAN

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 0132 AM

Zumwalt!
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#10 Ken Estes

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 0344 AM

Lots of subs: British K boats, X-1: IJN early I boats and all RO class; USN S boats; but French Surcouf actually worked as designed but ignominiously was lost in collision.

 

German Hipper class CAs, most DDs with same engineering plant.

 

US Cleveland class CLs, Erie class gunboat-cruisers, Independence class CVLs.

 

French modern battleships, sad to say. 

 

IJN Shinano conversion to CV


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#11 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 0418 AM

HMS Captain.

https://en.wikipedia..._Captain_(1869)

 

I might also say the Mary Rose, except she was quite successful until Henry overloaded her with guns. Even then it seems her loss was as much due to poor seamanship as it was an overloaded design.


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#12 DougRichards

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 0612 AM

HMS Captain.

https://en.wikipedia..._Captain_(1869)

 

I might also say the Mary Rose, except she was quite successful until Henry overloaded her with guns. Even then it seems her loss was as much due to poor seamanship as it was an overloaded design.

The captain of the Mary Rose is recorded as saying that he could not command the crew as so few spoke English - many were impressed POW Spanish / French / Dutch and others.

 

https://www.dailymai...se-thought.html


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#13 JW Collins

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 0619 AM

Lots of subs: British K boats, X-1: IJN early I boats and all RO class; USN S boats; but French Surcouf actually worked as designed but ignominiously was lost in collision.
 
German Hipper class CAs, most DDs with same engineering plant.
 
US Cleveland class CLs, Erie class gunboat-cruisers, Independence class CVLs.

French modern battleships, sad to say.

IJN Shinano conversion to CV

Why did you put the Cleveland class CLs on the list? They seemed to give good wartime service although they were a bit top heavy (a problem which plagued many other cruisers as well). Even the Independence class CVLs while far from ideal did provide enough flight decks until enough Essex class CVs were ready.

Edited by JW Collins, 23 January 2020 - 0622 AM.

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#14 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 0743 AM

 

HMS Captain.

https://en.wikipedia..._Captain_(1869)

 

I might also say the Mary Rose, except she was quite successful until Henry overloaded her with guns. Even then it seems her loss was as much due to poor seamanship as it was an overloaded design.

The captain of the Mary Rose is recorded as saying that he could not command the crew as so few spoke English - many were impressed POW Spanish / French / Dutch and others.

 

https://www.dailymai...se-thought.html

 

 

 

 

HMS Captain.

https://en.wikipedia..._Captain_(1869)

 

I might also say the Mary Rose, except she was quite successful until Henry overloaded her with guns. Even then it seems her loss was as much due to poor seamanship as it was an overloaded design.

The captain of the Mary Rose is recorded as saying that he could not command the crew as so few spoke English - many were impressed POW Spanish / French / Dutch and others.

 

https://www.dailymai...se-thought.html

 

Yeah, they did an analysis on some of the bones, and concluded at least some of them were Flemish. Which makes sense when you think about it, its not like they had a fully mobilized navy all the time. That would have been unaffordable.


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#15 Ken Estes

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 1409 PM

 

Lots of subs: British K boats, X-1: IJN early I boats and all RO class; USN S boats; but French Surcouf actually worked as designed but ignominiously was lost in collision.
 
German Hipper class CAs, most DDs with same engineering plant.
 
US Cleveland class CLs, Erie class gunboat-cruisers, Independence class CVLs.

French modern battleships, sad to say.

IJN Shinano conversion to CV

Why did you put the Cleveland class CLs on the list? They seemed to give good wartime service although they were a bit top heavy (a problem which plagued many other cruisers as well). Even the Independence class CVLs while far from ideal did provide enough flight decks until enough Essex class CVs were ready.

 

 

 

 

You have it right: Clevelands were overloaded as designed, so no room for growth, further service [exc as CLGs]. The CVLs were better than nothing, self explanatory.


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#16 R011

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 1456 PM

In both cases, it seems they worked exactly as they were meant to. The CVLs in particular were meant as wartime expedients. The Clevelands seem no worse than any of the 10K ton cruisers.
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#17 RETAC21

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 1611 PM

Popovkas!

 

1024px-Russian_monitor_Novgorod_%28scale


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#18 RETAC21

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 1613 PM

Fast light battlecruisers:

 

1280px-HMS_Glorious_%281917%29_profile_d


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#19 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 0232 AM

They were built for a specific mission though, supporting a land invasion through the Scagarak. Ok, so it was probably a bad idea, and probably Fisher had one too many, but it was never really tried in the role for anyone to be certain.

 

They were arguably much better employed as aircraft carriers though, particularly Furious.


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#20 Adam_S

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 0637 AM

Zumwalt!

I'll see your Zumwalt and raise you a Little Crappy Ship.


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