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Nerve Agent Attack In Britain.


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#2621 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 0307 AM

Got a source that proves Bellingcat are a UK Government source? I might even pay credit if its not yet another source you trawl from Russian Government feeds. Listen to Bellingcats podcast. You will realize it was established BEFORE MH17. The idea that its a UK Government reaction to Russian Government policy is not true and never has  been.

 

Anyway, back in reality. Russia faces more sanctions. Nice one yanks.

 

https://www.nbcnewyo...-515530661.html

The United States has announced more sanctions against Russia over its use of a nerve agent to try and assassinate former Russian spy Sergei Skripal in Britain in 2018, the State Department said, as NBC News reported

The announced sanctions fall under the Chemical and Biological Weapons Control and Warfare Elimination Act and mean the U.S. will oppose loans and assistance by international financial institutions like the International Monetary Fund, and restrictions on the export on Department of Commerce-controlled goods and technology, the State Department said in a statement.

"After the first round of sanctions in response to Russia's assassination attempt against a private citizen in the United Kingdom, Russia did not provide the assurances required under U.S. law, so we are imposing the second round of sanctions," White House spokesman Hogan Gidley said in a statement Friday.

Russia has been accused of using the military-grade nerve agent Novichok to poison former double agent Sergei Skripal in March 2018. His daughter, Yulia, who was visiting him, was also sickened. They were found unconscious on a bench in the British town of Salisbury and spent weeks in critical condition but recovered.


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#2622 Roman Alymov

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 0645 AM

Got a source that proves Bellingcat are a UK Government source? I might even pay credit if its not yet another source you trawl from Russian Government feeds. Listen to Bellingcats podcast. You will realize it was established BEFORE MH17. The idea that its a UK Government reaction to Russian Government policy is not true and never has  been.

 

Is it any need for that? On previous page you (as far as I understand  -correct me if I am wrong) accused me of using non-UKGov sources, as only UK Gov official versions are to be noted, and everything outside it is media speculations. Now you are trying to direct me to Bellingcat as reliable source – at the same time claiming it got no link to UK Gov.  I’m afraid my Russian mind is  not flexible enough for that degree of doublethink.


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#2623 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 0658 AM

So you assert the 37 reasons why it wasn't Russia, through multiple different sources not proporting to be, but in fact are Russian Government sources, are exactly the same as a speech by the Prime Minister and a British policeman in an open source forum to the Media?

 

You are the one continually using Russian Government sources or alt conspiracy websites and pro porting they are valid positions. You embraced all those 37 different theories with the same kind of alacrity ive embraced the single explanation. All ive done is cite the UK Government and British newspapers, the latter with the very large caveat that much of what they discuss is often rubbish, but remain the only sources in a fast moving investigation.  Ive yet to see you do anything but treat those Alt conspiracy websites you cite as if they are anything but unvarnished truth, even when they are mutually contradicting each other, in this and the MH17 shoot down. I mean no offense Roman, but who wool are you trying to pull over whose eyes here? I accept the need for alternative points of view and I welcome an unvarnished Russian perspective, but when the sources cited are demonstrably untrue, and they keep being raised again and again, it looks more like chaff on a radar screen than any desire to seriously discuss the subject

 

You really are absolutely priceless to be lecturing me on double-think, you really are.


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 19 September 2019 - 0705 AM.

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#2624 Roman Alymov

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 0720 AM

So you assert the 37 reasons why it wasn't Russia, through multiple different sources not proporting to be, but in fact are Russian Government sources, are exactly the same as a speech by the Prime Minister and a British policeman in an open source forum to the Media?

 

I’m afraid I am not getting  you idea   - so, to start with something , could you kindly provide the list of “37 reasons why it wasnt Russia” you claim I “assert”?


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#2625 Chris Werb

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 1611 PM

Guys, you're never going to convince each other. Let's move on and find something else to disagree vehemently about :)


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#2626 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 0203 AM

Truth is something you must stand by, or we are all going to be smothered by an avalanche of lies. Hearing the other guys point of view is commendable, right up to the point when its becomes a vehicle for state propaganda, and fairly nonsensical propaganda too.

 

By way of illustration, listen to the Bellingcat podcast on the MH17 shootdown, and the bodyguard of lies the Russian Government introduced to throw doubt on clearly verifiable facts.

https://open.spotify...gfC5gYVXZpZtvbY

 

One day you will all wake up and not know the difference between facts and lies anymore. And then you will wonder why you didnt man the barricades and face it down when you had the chance.


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 20 September 2019 - 0219 AM.

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#2627 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 0214 AM

Putin issues an interpol request to find the spy who defected to the US.

https://www.business...019-9?r=US&IR=T

 

Putin also issues the warning that Traitors must be punished.

https://www.nzherald...jectid=12266902

 

Macron says the time has come to ease tensions with Russia.

https://www.telegrap...ensions-russia/

 

TELEMMGLPICT000206892751_trans_NvBQzQNjv

 

 

 

We havent learned a Goddamned thing.


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#2628 Roman Alymov

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 1756 PM

Truth is something you must stand by, or we are all going to be smothered by an avalanche of lies. Hearing the other guys point of view is commendable, right up to the point when its becomes a vehicle for state propaganda, and fairly nonsensical propaganda too.

 

By way of illustration, listen to the Bellingcat podcast on the MH17 shootdown, and the bodyguard of lies the Russian Government introduced to throw doubt on clearly verifiable facts.

https://open.spotify...gfC5gYVXZpZtvbY

 

One day you will all wake up and not know the difference between facts and lies anymore. And then you will wonder why you didnt man the barricades and face it down when you had the chance.

Wasn't it your words "media put their own take on what was said, speculated about possible facts and when it suited them, lied, to stay ahead of the media scramble"?  What "facts"  you want audience to believe?  Something from Bellingcat podcast?  Something what UK Gov is saying,  the same UK Gov that failed everything in Brexit affair?
    As for me, it was extremely unwise step to link Skripals affair and MH17 debates, as by doing this you demonstrated  that both cases are the same propaganda stories.


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#2629 Roman Alymov

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 1759 PM


 

We havent learned a Goddamned thing.

No idea who are "we" hear, but seems like at least some European politicians have learned the lesson: do not trust UK Gov and media, but act according to own interests.


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#2630 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 0152 AM

It doesn't matter how often you screech 'Untrue! Untrue!', sooner or later your nation is going to smack into reality like an Iceberg, and its going to regret at its leisure how often it chanted the Putin line.

 

Congrats Roman on ruining what might have been an informative and discursive threat. I hope it was worth it for you.


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#2631 DougRichards

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 0404 AM

Several points / questions. Probably already made but I will repeat:

 

What state actor had access to the (military grade) agent used in the attempted poisoning?

 

What state actor had anything to gain from a successful poisoning?

 

What state actor had the ability to place personnel in a position to attempt this poisoning?

 

What state actor's personnel left Britain very soon after the attempted poisoning?

 

Lastly, what state actor has a history of this form of action?  (ie Trotsky / Icepick - okay, cut down ice axe - / Mexico)...........


Edited by DougRichards, 22 September 2019 - 0419 AM.

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#2632 Chris Werb

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 0629 AM

All that is pure coincidence, Doug :)
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#2633 DougRichards

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 0648 AM

Okay, le

 

All that is pure coincidence, Doug :)

 

You mean like if there is snow outside your fence, and there are footprints in the snow leading to and from your letterbox and there is a letter or three in that letterbox, that you checked earlier in the day and found empty, and other neighbours received mail at the same time, you must not assume that the letters were delivered by the post man, as that would be pure co-incidence?


Edited by DougRichards, 22 September 2019 - 0649 AM.

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#2634 Roman Alymov

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 0751 AM

Several points / questions. Probably already made but I will repeat:

 

What state actor had access to the (military grade) agent used in the attempted poisoning?

First of all, nobody could be sure what agent was used - as all information and samples are coming from UK side, so it is unverifiable. If we take British claim of so called "Novichok"  for real  (despite it is not matching symptoms and claimed method of use) - then any country with more or less good chemical lab could produce it (see Czech Republic producing it "for test" https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/03/novichok-type-nerve-agent-produced-in-czech-republic-last-year- )

 

 

What state actor had anything to gain from a successful poisoning?

What is " successful poisoning"? If you mean something like "old retired agent found dead in his house, probably of natural reasons" - nobody would even notice, no gain to anybody.  If you consider real form of Skripal's scandal as "successful poisoning" - then  gaining side was, first and foremost, UK (as it allowed UK to rally temporary international support during uneasy Brexit moment), plus some elements in US who believe it could harm current US President political options.

 

 

What state actor had the ability to place personnel in a position to attempt this poisoning?

First and foremost, UK (as they are in full control of situation on own territory), then "friends of UK". Russia is the last in the list as any Russian would be high on watch list of British counterintelligence.

 

 

What state actor's personnel left Britain very soon after the attempted poisoning?

It is the question for UK side to answer (as we do not know, for example, what US operatives were visiting UK at that time, not mentioning operations of UK own services). As for me, current British version (or it is another media speculation?) of "two agents and their supervisor" is not holding water.

 

 

Lastly, what state actor has a history of this form of action?  (ie Trotsky / Icepick - okay, cut down ice axe - / Mexico)...........

First of all, UK - read about "Ambassadors' Plot" By Sidney Reily&Co https://en.wikipedia...i/Sidney_Reilly


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#2635 Chris Werb

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 0911 AM

Okay, le

 

All that is pure coincidence, Doug :)

 

You mean like if there is snow outside your fence, and there are footprints in the snow leading to and from your letterbox and there is a letter or three in that letterbox, that you checked earlier in the day and found empty, and other neighbours received mail at the same time, you must not assume that the letters were delivered by the post man, as that would be pure co-incidence?

 

It could have been a false-flag operation under which someone posing as a Post Office employee posted the letters in order to implicate the Post Office with their delivery.


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#2636 Roman Alymov

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 1312 PM

By the way about another misterious death


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#2637 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 0540 AM

Charlie Rowley to sue Russia.

https://www.thesun.c...lfriends-death/

 

Ive seen 2 different estimates on what he is going for, but I guess it depends on what he can get. If they can afford a chemical weapons program and flying hoods into Britain and visit Salisbury and visit its incredibly large tower, I suspect they can probably afford it.


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