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Hitler's Indian recruits


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#1 Slater

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 1552 PM

http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/3684288.stm

This is a somewhat obscure but interesting facet of World War II. One doesn't usually think of Indian troops wearing German uniforms.
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#2 Gabe

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 1620 PM

http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/3684288.stm

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Both Germany and Japan had high hopes for the Indian independence movement to mess with the British. I was at the Yasukuni Shrine in Tokyo were they displayed a letter from the Indian movement leader thanking the IJA for trying to liberate India.

Edited by Gabe, 20 August 2005 - 1621 PM.

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#3 Mikel2

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 1625 PM

Just like they tried to liberate China? :unsure:

I was at the Yasukuni Shrine in Tokyo were they displayed a letter from the Indian movement leader thanking the IJA for trying to liberate India.

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#4 Gabe

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 1632 PM

Just like they tried to liberate China?  :unsure:

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Well they didn't get a thank you letter for that. How rude.
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#5 DwightPruitt

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 1842 PM

http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/3684288.stm

This is a somewhat obscure but interesting facet of World War II. One doesn't usually think of Indian troops wearing German uniforms.

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Here ya go!

Posted Image
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#6 Section 8

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 1952 PM

I'm sure certain tanknet menber (s) will quickly post 15+ reference in regards to this:

5 of them will say this a big lie by the Brit
4 of them claim those are not Indian
3 of them claim those are Pakistani
2 of them will blame on the evil Pakistan
1 of them will said those are photoshop image by the evil Chinese commie

the rest wil put the US liberal media and Nepal's Royal house at fault

:lol:
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#7 nitin

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 2019 PM

Do you have anything useful to contribute apart from useless trolling in general?

Get a life.
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#8 nitin

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 2032 PM

Posted Image

Logo by Jaume Ollé

http://www.crwflags....s/in-azhin.html

This link iirc is the most ccmprehensive one.

http://www.feldgrau.com/azadhind.html

Book review of "The Sign of the Tiger: Subhas Chandra Bose And His Indian Legion in Germany, 1941-45 by Rudolf Hartog; Rupa, New Delhi; Pages 206, Rs.395."

http://www.frontline...20/18200770.htm

Incidentally the Azad Hind members and their compatriots from Bose's Indian National Army were shunned by the Indian Army after independence. They were not reinstated,nor ranks regularized. The rationale was the Army was apolitical organization and did not want these members within its ranks. Furthermore, the IA was still of British heritage and the brass were unsure of how the Azad Hind guys would fit in. Lastly, there were allegations of torture against captured Indian troops by some Azad Hind members [to coerce POWs to join].

Bose has taken most of the credit and fame, but for better or worse, the INA [Indian National Army; Azad Hind] members were left in the shadows. IIRC some of them are still hoping for some sort of regular pension from the Indian Govt.
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#9 nitin

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 2039 PM

Philately on Bose/ Azad Hind.

The term "controversial" with regards to Bose is correct. He is deified in West Bengal, the state of his origin. But his political career was wracked by a severe disagreement with Mahatma Gandhi and the Congress Party.

Gandhi was iirc of the view that armed struggle would be incessant and needlessly bloody. Bose wanted independence at any cost. Hence his run for "questionable" allies, rushing from Hitler to Japan. Hitler basically fobbed him off without any reassurance regarding India's independence. The Japanese were more interested. Albeit imho, having Bose on their side made for good propoganda.

After Independence, the Congress took political power and that was that.
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#10 FlyingCanOpener

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 2104 PM

Do you have anything useful to contribute apart from useless trolling in general?

Get a life.

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Actually, I thought it was pretty funny myself, as it did succulently describe the internet searching powers of our memberships.

Though back on topic I always heard of this as being a bit of urban history. Nice to see that debunked...
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#11 Mikel2

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 2201 PM

For some reason, I suspect that if the Japanese had succeeded in "liberating" them, India would not suffer from overpopulation problems nowadays...



Well they didn't get a thank you letter for that. How rude.

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#12 DougRichards

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 2338 PM

http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/3684288.stm

This is a somewhat obscure but interesting facet of World War II. One doesn't usually think of Indian troops wearing German uniforms.

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One of my history professors, who had a particular interest in the Second World War, stated in one of his lectures that the "Burma Campaign" was largely fought on Indian soil, between two armies largely composed of Indian nationals, one officered by the British, the other by the Japanese.
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#13 nitin

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 0030 AM

Actually, I thought it was pretty funny myself, as it did succulently describe the internet searching powers of our memberships.


You are welcome to your views, but it was obvious as to the intent of the original post and the flaming it was intended to provoke.
The Nepal bit for one. The said poster above posted some egregrious claims on the INSAS thread and they were politely and factually debunked. But given that he did not have anything to rebut that, such comments are the best way to hit back. As to the Brit line- that was merely playing to the gallery, so were the next three. The last line accurately depicts where the particular poster is so needled and which is the crux of the matter. The online chinese and Indian boards have a nice "history" behind them and its not hard to discern where loyalties lie, given past posting behaviour on other boards. Anyhow, this is a thread diversion- exactly what the original post intended, so I'll get back on topic.

Though back on topic I always heard of this as being a bit of urban history. Nice to see that debunked...

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Its hardly urban history or legend! The Bose INA thing and the Indian Legend is very well documented.
As a matter of fact, any search on the Indian troops throws up dozens of links, even with cursory keywords.
Bose and his history are pretty well documented. The man had noble intentions [from the Independence pov] but he ended up having to ask those for aid, who were much worse and no better than the Raj [and in many policies much worse].
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#14 nitin

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 0040 AM

One of my history professors, who had a particular interest in the Second World War, stated in one of his lectures that the "Burma Campaign" was largely fought on Indian soil, between two armies largely composed of Indian nationals, one officered by the British, the other by the Japanese.

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He was right on target in a general sense, although it was the Japanese Army which was the real opponent, and conducted the bulk of the fighting. Many in the British Indian Army regarded the IJA assisted as oath breakers, whereas the Azad Hind guys thought they were fighting a bunch of sell outs.

It was a bit more complicated than that though. Field Marshal Cariappa [who fought iirc in the Burma Campaign and was decorated; his FM was a tag specifically given by the Indian Govt given his service in setting up and organizing the Indian Army post independence as the CAS] recalls that many Indian officers of the time had become politically aware and contacted the Indian National Congress, as they were conflicted upon serving the British. He and his fellow officers also did the same. He was told to stay away and do his job, as the British would be leaving soon, and the nascent Indian state would surely need the services of trained military professionals and his services [and those of his colleagues ] would be much more valuable than they would be as political activists.

So while many officers in the British led Indian Army were keenly aware of and sympathised with the independence movement, they stuck on with the job at hand.

Also, part of the Congress's support for the British led WW2 effort using Indian troops was the general "understanding" that given this sacrifice, the British would leave India and independence was a given. Of course, as you'd know- that didnt work out, and the Congress ultimately started the countrywide, mass non-violent "Quit India" movement.
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#15 nitin

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 0049 AM

For some reason, I suspect that if the Japanese had succeeded in "liberating" them, India would not suffer from overpopulation problems nowadays...

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True. Given the treatment of Indian POWs and what they did to other Asian populations, Boses holding out against the Japanese is very debatable. The way things ultimately worked out was perhaps for the best from the Indian independence POV.
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#16 nitin

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 0052 AM

edited for not working links

Edited by nitin, 21 August 2005 - 0054 AM.

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#17 AaronK

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 0252 AM

Here are some bullet points
- British have done a lot worse to maintain or regain their independence
- Any Indian who risked his life fighting for British Queen was not a bright person
- Any Indian who did whatever he could to advance the cause of Indian independence was a great man
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#18 SALADIN

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 0333 AM

As for Hitler i dont think he was particularly keen on India getting independence, he was supposed to have remarked to an indian officer that indians were not ready for independence for at least a 100 years.

Indian populations under Japanese?.There were quite a number in occupied Malaya for instance.While it was tough for everyone , the japanese targetted mainly the chinese and left those did not cause them problems to their own devices.

AaronK, highly provocative rhetoric.Might be OK in the FFZ but we generally try and avoid this in the GenMil forum as it derails the substantive content rich discussions lots of us look forward to.
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#19 nitin

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 0405 AM

I agree. This adds nothing to the discussion!

The bulk of people who fought for India in 47-48 were those who signed up under the British; I am quite sure all the widows and veterans would appreciate being called "not bright" for having signed up!

On a side note about Bose- he set up the Tiger Legion, talks to Hitler about it, meeting is a disaster. Bose comes out calling Hitler a "boda pagol", mad man, leaves his troops behind and goes to Japan to set up the Azad Hind/Indian National Army [Japanese give him an assurance for independent India, which Hitler doesnt. Hitler wants to invade Russia, which Bose regards as a betrayal]. All intended to get rid of the Raj, but what of the men he left behind in Germany? They felt left behind, morale hit rock bottom, discipline suffered! INA fights against their fellow Indians, many of whom would *not* leave the British Army as they'd have to break their oath.

There are no *easy* answers or glib judgements to make.

However, as historian Ed Hayne's [people might know him from his research on war medals] notes- the Tiger Legion/INA/ Bose broke the impression that the British Indian Army would remain forever committed to British interests, and that had a huge impact on Britains plans to remain in India- they had to revise the timescale for withdrawal.

From the Indian pov, there remains a widespread admiration for the INA/ Bose since despite all the bit about non-violence etc- at least someone took up arms against the British after the failed revolt in 1857, and put a lot on the line to make it happen. Furthermore, Bose's INA was the ideal secular unit- Indian Muslims, Hindus, Christians and Sikhs all signed up, caste and creed forgotten. Bose's man friday and closest friend was a Muslim. [who helped him escape from British house arrest in India]

And even so, elements of the INA did apply strong arm tactics to make people sign up even though Bose did not- he used to cherrypick members and have them sold on his vision.

After independence, like I said before, the INA was rejected by the Indian Army, even though the public liked him . [ I think the Congress was ok with his popularity since he had no successors and he was dead and gone]

Like I said, no easy answers. And provocative rhetoric does not help.

Furthermore, todays Indian Armed forces still have a lot of British begun traditions, are they too "not bright"?
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#20 nitin

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 0406 AM

Saladin,

Spot on. Hitler is said to have remarked that the British should have been much harsher with Indian revolts or attempts to gain self rule.

Goes without saying that if Hitler had been in charge, his officers would have carried out his remarks with due diligence.
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