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Why the Germans?


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#241 Vuk

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 2045 PM

In WW1 the German army basicly ran the country and still lost
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#242 Meyer

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 2155 PM

You could say, with some caveats, that the Allies, and especially the Soviets, fought with good strategy but inferior tactics. It worked, but many Allied soldiers died who should have lived.


I don't see the Allied, and the Soviets in particular, that good at the strategic level. I think all powers entered in the war with the wrong strategy. And, specially, the Stalin strategic and diplomatic "scheme" in the 1939/1941 period had disastrous consequences for the SU, and actually, the whole Europe.
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#243 thekirk

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 2205 PM


You could say, with some caveats, that the Allies, and especially the Soviets, fought with good strategy but inferior tactics. It worked, but many Allied soldiers died who should have lived.


I don't see the Allied, and the Soviets in particular, that good at the strategic level. I think all powers entered in the war with the wrong strategy. And, specially, the Stalin strategic and diplomatic "scheme" in the 1939/1941 period had disastrous consequences for the SU, and actually, the whole Europe.


It wasn't so much that the Allies had better strategy, it was that they had less-bad ones...
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#244 Exel

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 0418 AM

Chinese military saying:

Strategy without tactics is the long, hard road to ultimate victory.
Tactics without strategy is the noise and spectacle preceding ultimate defeat.

(I am uncomfortable with this saying. The second line, I feel, strikes too close to home if seen in the light of NATO conduct in the "Long War on Terror").



Well that's exactly what happened in Iraq and is still happening in Afghanistan. The US has basically made up its strategy as it went along, sometimes after the fact. They basically had no strategy for post-Saddam or post-Taleban after their early operational victories.
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#245 Exel

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 0423 AM



Maybe the military had a disproportionate influence on German national decision-making in the last century?


The military had pretty much zero influence on the national decision making from 1933 on.


In which case, the German military was used merely for their tactical and operational genius.

The government forgot that they were also the nation's experts on what was strategically (militarily) possible and likely; plus they should have had input on grand strategy as well (who do we antagonize/befriend, and to what degree; how do we mobilize the economy and the scientific community, etc).

Perhaps they got relegated to the role of an instrument or tool, rather than the brain trust they ought to have been.

Was this down to the Nazis being Nazis, or was it something else?



What can you expect from leaders subscribing to a delusional ideology that in their minds replaces even science.
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#246 RETAC21

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 0558 AM

Since you guys insist on getting this thread on track, let's bring in some numbers:

http://www.dupuyinst...umanfactors.pdf
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#247 Sardaukar

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 2005 PM

When Germans were able to use their (mostly) good small-unit training and tactics vs. opponent who was not able to use their strengths, they prevailed. Same was with Finnish military during WW II.

But if it became "men vs. fire", latter usually won in long run.
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