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#41 BansheeOne

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 0822 AM

Revised Navy OOB:


Navy High Command *** (Novoarkhangelsk)

- Navy High Command Support Battalion


Naval Operations Command ** (Novoarkhangelsk)

- Naval Operations Command Support Battalion

- 1st Frigate Squadron (Stoyanka, 4 x Type Brooke mod. FFG)
- 2nd Corvette Squadron (Novoarkhangelsk, 8 x Vickers Vedette FFL)
- 3rd Corvette Squadron (Stoyanka, 8 x Vosper Thornycroft Mk 4 FFL)

- 1st Submarine Squadron (Stoyanka, 4 x Type Barbel SSK, 1 x submarine tender)
- 1st Minesweeper Squadron (Stoyanka, 12 x Type Bluebird MSC, 1 x minesweeper tender)
- 1st Training Squadron (Novoarkhangelsk, 12 x training cutter, 1 x training ship)
- 1st Replenishment Squadron (Stoyanka, 4 x AOR)

- 1st Amphibious Squadron (Stoyanka, 4 x Type Terrebonne Parish LST)
- 2nd Amphibious Squadron (Stoyanka, 16 x LCU)
- 3rd Assault Boat Squadron (Kodiak, 28 x Tpbs 200)
- 4th Assault Boat Squadron (reserve; Novoarkhangelsk, 28 x Tpbs 200)

- 1st Maritime Patrol Aircraft Squadron (Kodiak, 9 x CP-107, replacement with CP-140 planned)
- 2nd Maritime Patrol Aircraft Squadron (Kodiak, reserve, 9 x P-2H)
- 3rd Helicopter Squadron (Kodiak, 18 x SH-2D)


Coastal Command ** (Stoyanka)

- Coastal Command Support Battalion (reserve)

- Novoarkhangelsk Base Operations Regiment
- Stoyanka Base Operations Regiment
- Kodiak Base Operations Regiment
- Nome Base Operations Regiment (reserve)

- 1st Navy Logistics Battalion (Stoyanka)
- 2nd Navy Logistics Battalion (reserve, Novoarkhangelsk)
- 3rd Navy Logistics Battalion (reserve, Kodiak)

- 1st Navy Training Battalion (Stoyanka)
- 1st Navy Training Battalion (reserve, Novoarkhangelsk)
- 3rd Navy Training Battalion (reserve, Kodiak)


I added a training squadron running a dozen small cutters of a type I also intend to use for a possible Naval Homeguard as well as a larger vessel that will be used as a patrol and minelaying vessel in wartime, similar to the Swedish Carlskrona; it has a length of 105 meters, beam of 15 meters, displaces 3,800 tons full load and has a top speed of 21 knots. It has limited icegoing capabilities, a landing deck and hangar for two Seasprites, a 127 mm L/38 Mk 30 mount, two twin 40 mm L/70 Bofors Model 1958 mounts and two 20 mm Oerlikon GAI-CO6. Complement is about 160, half of which are cadets.

The tenders of the various boat squadrons are a unfied smaller variant of the same design, though with differing special equipment. They have a length of 75 meters, displace about 2700 tons and have no helicopter facilities, but are otherwise similiar to the larger vessel. The AORs are about 4,000 tons too, but only have the 40 mm armament and a complement of about 80.

The base operations regiments are similar to the air force wings, but only have an operations and security battalion each except the one at Kodiak, which has an aircraft maintenance group too. Unfortunately, this still comes out to an overall active strength of 12,000 and a mobilized strength of about 18,000.

As expected, the bulk of those is in the shore units. An obvious remedy would be to concentrate my fleet in a single homeport and delete a base operations regiment. OTOH, I think that I can manage to train an additional 2,000 conscripts annually, for example by extending NCO training to the top 15 percent of a class. Else I must go back to the other services and find another 2,000 slots to spare.
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#42 BansheeOne

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 0432 AM

I have identified a range of options to spare 2,000 active posts in the three services:

Army

- Move one of the brigades reporting directly to High Command with its logistics battalion to Junograd and delete active battalion from 1st Logistics Regiment. Impact: Not only is the Junograd area the most distant from probable areas of deployment, but only connected by sea and air routes, so it gets problematic to move heavy equipment from there quickly. This problem would be least with the Aviation Brigade, but their logistics are pretty specialized towards aircraft needs. Savings: 900 slots.

- Delete Armored Cavalry Regiment and give each infantry brigade a tank company instead. Impact: I will lose my armored reserve, but it may be permissible given the prevalent terrain. Savings: 600 slots.

Air Force

- Delete F-111 squadron, give one or two F-4 squadrons some RF-4E to replace reconnaissance capabilities. Impact: Will lose my deep strike/recon capability against invasion forces, must rely on US for that. Savings: 200 slots.

- Disband Security Police and transfer mission to general Military Police. Impact: Negligible. Savings: 600 slots.

Navy

- Concentrate homeporting at Stoyanka, inactivate Novoarkhangelsk Base Operations Regiment. Impact: Will probably have to beef up Stoyanka Regiment to handle increased operations there. Savings: 800 slots.

- Delete two frigates and transfer the others to one Corvette Squadron each to act as flotilla leaders. Impact: Seaborne area air defense cut in half. Savings: 500 slots.

- Delete Submarine Squadron. Impact: Will lose more deep strike/recon capabilities against seaborne invasion forces. Savings: 500 slots.

- Make Minesweeping Squadron semi-active with only tender and two boats operating in peacetime. Impact: Minesweeping capability becomes largely mobilization-dependent. Savings: 500 slots.

- Amalgamate Amphibious and Assault Boat Squadrons into semi-active group with only two LST, four LCU and 28 Tpbs 200 operating in peacetime. Impact: amphibious capability becomes largely mobilization-dependent. Savings: 700 slots.

The navy savings are reduced by about 200 for a underwater demolitions/special operations units I might plug into either the minesweeping or amphibious force. However, implementing the easiest options (delete Air Force SP, centralized homeporting, inactivating part of minesweepers and landing craft) still saves me 2,200, which already fulfills my needs. I could even run four more minesweepers or all the LCUs, or a mix of both.

ETA: D'oh! For the last few posts I have misremembered my total active manpower number as 56,000 instead of the actual 54,000. Which means I have to save another 2,000 slots. I will therefore probably have to take the following actions:

- Delete Armored Cavalry Regiment (- 600).

- Delete F-111 Squadron (- 200).

- Delete Air Force Security Police (- 600).

- Concentrate homeporting at Stoyanka (- 800).

- Delete Frigate Squadron (- 500).

- Delete Submarine Squadron (- 500).

- Inactivate part of minesweeping and amphibious forces (- 1200).

This is a major loss of capabilities. I may have to redesign the naval combat units specifically to save some of them.

Edited by BansheeOne, 04 September 2012 - 1126 AM.

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#43 BansheeOne

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 0840 AM

Meanwhile, I've been giving some thought about a homeguard system. Those are typically regional-based, so I looked at the Alaskan boroughs (which will be Oblasts in Russian of course) and decided I can train a total of 12,000 recruits in ten Homeguard Battalions and 24 independent companies (including naval) at any time. This takes care of 8,000 of my 11,000 surplus conscripts, at the expense of my civil defense corps - which is not a problem, because the latter was a bit oversized at 10,000 active strength to begin with, and the latter can take over some of its missions.

Conscripts in the Homeguard will also serve a term of 18 months, but it will be spread out similiar to the Swiss militia system; I'm thinking of a six month basic training period followed by annual month-long drills (including reserve NCO training) for twelve years. Being an enlisted-heavy organization with very basic local protection missions means I need far less of a professional cadre, about 1,500 by my calculation. Wartime recall of twelve classes will result in a mobilized strength of 108,000, more than half again that of the regular forces.

The problem is that the cadre of 1,500 will likely have to come out of the 16,200 leading the regular forces. Now we have established that the Army has about 20 percent professionals of its 34,000 (anticipating the latest reductions) active personnel (= 6,800), and the Air Force and Navy 60 percent of their 10,000 each (= 12,000), which actually comes out to 18,000 (that would have to charitably include my conscripted JNCOs). So I have none to spare for the Homeguard; I either have to recruit more officers and NCOs, or reduce active strength yet again by 4,500 and/or call up less conscripts for the Homeguard. Another issue to chew on.
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#44 BansheeOne

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 1627 PM

Argh, I'm starting to get tangled in the web I've weaved with all those categories of volunteer cadres, draftees and conscripted JNCOs ... last night I spent four hours writing and rewriting this post only to find my numbers were still messed up. Of course it doesn't help if you add 6,800 + 12,000 and come out to 18,000 like in the post above. So now, with a hopefully clearer mind:

Leadership requirements of the regular forces are 18,800, including 1,800 conscripted JNCOs; Homeguard cadre would have to be added to that. I don't however want to exceed three percent of a class in recruitment of volunteers, because I fear standards will have to be lowered and/or cost for material enticements, patriotic advertising etc. will grow disproportionally. This limits my annual harvest to 1,500 (about 2.75-2.8 percent of young males and 0.2-0.25 of females), which will give me a maximum of 18,000 professionals with an average service time of twelve years. Adding my 1,800 JNCOs, I get a total of 19,800.

Therefore, only 1,000 remain available for the Homeguard. I'll therefore delete two of the Homeguard battalions and eight independent companies, and conscript only 6,000 of a class for a recruit strength of 9,000. 3,000 more will be drafted into the Civil Defense Corps, with 2,000 remaining for volunteer service with police, fire departments, Coast Guard etc.

Hence:


Army High Command *** (Junograd)

- 1st Special Operations Battalion

- Command Support Regiment Army HC
- 1st Guards Regiment

- Engineer Brigade (headquartered at Stoyanka)
-- 4 x Engineer Battalion (three reserve)
-- NBC Battalion (reserve)

- 1st Artillery Brigade (Coastal - headquartered at Kodiak)
-- 4 x Coastal Artillery Battalion (three reserve, 24 x FH-70 each)
-- Observation Battalion (reserve)
-- Logistics Battalion

- 2nd Artillery Brigade (Heavy - headquartered at Stoyanka)
-- 4 x Heavy Artillery Battalion (three reserve, 24 x M107 each)
-- Observation Battalion (reserve)
-- Logistics Battalion

- Army Air Defense Brigade (headquartered at Stoyanka)
-- 4 x Air Defense Artillery Battalion (one active with 32 x Gepard, three reserve with 32 x GDF-001 each)
-- Air Defense Missile Battalion (reserve, 32 x Rapier)
-- Logistics Battalion

- Army Aviation Brigade (headquartered at Stoyanka)
-- 2 x Attack Helicopter Battalion (one reserve, 36 x AH-1T, 18 x OH-6D each)
-- 2 x Transport Helicopter Battalion (one reserve, 32 x UH-60A replacing UH-1N, 12 x CH-47C/D each)
-- Logistics Battalion


Regional Command East ** (Junograd)

- HQ Company RC East
- 1st Military Intelligence Company (reserve)

- 1st Security Battalion
- 1st Signals Battalion (reserve)
- 1st Military Police Battalion (reserve)
- 5th Military Police Battalion (reserve)

- 1st Medical Regiment
- 1st Logistics Regiment
- 1st Field Training and Replacement Regiment (reserve)
- 5th Field Training and Replacement Regiment (reserve)

- 1st Infantry Brigade (reserve)
- 5th Infantry Brigade (reserve)


Regional Command Center ** (Stoyanka)

- HQ Company RC Center
- 2nd Military Intelligence Company (reserve)

- 2nd Security Battalion
- 2nd Signals Battalion (reserve)
- 2nd Military Police Battalion (reserve)
- 6th Military Police Battalion (reserve)

- 2nd Ranger Regiment (Airborne)
- 2nd Medical Regiment
- 2nd Logistics Regiment (reserve)
- 2nd Field Training and Replacement Regiment (reserve)
- 6th Field Training and Replacement Regiment (reserve)

- 2nd Infantry Brigade
- 6th Infantry Brigade (reserve)


Regional Command North ** (Krasiviyebyeryega)

- HQ Company RC North
- 3rd Military Intelligence Company (reserve)

- 3rd Security Battalion
- 3rd Signals Battalion (reserve)
- 3rd Military Police Battalion (reserve)
- 7th Military Police Battalion (reserve)

- 3rd Ranger Regiment (Arctic)
- 3rd Medical Regiment
- 3rd Logistics Regiment (reserve)
- 3rd Field Training and Replacement Regiment (reserve)
- 7th Field Training and Replacement Regiment (reserve)

- 3rd Infantry Brigade
- 7th Infantry Brigade (reserve)


Regional Command West ** (Kodiak)

- HQ Company RC West
- 4th Military Intelligence Company (reserve)

- 4th Security Battalion
- 4th Signals Battalion (reserve)
- 4th Military Police Battalion (reserve)
- 8th Military Police Battalion (reserve)

- 4th Ranger Regiment (Coastal)
- 4th Medical Regiment
- 4th Logistics Regiment (reserve)
- 4th Field Training and Replacement Regiment (reserve)
- 8th Field Training and Replacement Regiment (reserve)

- 4th Infantry Brigade (reserve)
- 8th Infantry Brigade (reserve)


You will note that in addition to previous cuts I deleted the Lance and CH-47 battalions, replacing one company in each of the former Assault Helicopter Battalions with one from the latter. This is because I took a more detailed look, including individual companies in my count and coming up with another about 2,000 troops I had to compensate for.

OTOH, I found that I had 35,000 reservists of all services on immediate recall with no slot upon mobilization, equal to about 40 inactive battalions. So I expanded my Medical Battalions into regiments with three reserve battalions and added another FTR Regiment and reserve Military Police Battalion per regional command. This means I now have one soldier training to replace losses for about every four fighting, which should give the Army some staying power. Active strength is now 34,000, of which 6,800 cadre; mobilized strength 148,000.


Air Force High Command *** (Elmendorov AFB)

- Command Support Group Air Force HC


Air Operations Command ** (Elmendorov AFB)

- Command Support Group AOC

- 1st Wing (Elmendorov AFB)
-- 1st Base Operations Group
-- 1st Technical Group
-- 1st Security Group
-- 1st Fighter Bomber Squadron (24 x F-4E)
-- 3rd Fighter Bomber Squadron (18 x F-4E, 6 x RF-4E)
-- 5th Fighter Bomber Squadron (reserve, 18 x A-4F, 6 x TA-4F)
-- 20th Air Transport Squadron (4 x C-135, 8 x C-21)
-- 21st Air Transport Squadron (12 x C-130E/H)
-- 24th Training Squadron (12 x T-3A, 12 x T-44A)

- 2nd Wing (Eielsonski AFB)
-- 2nd Base Operations Group
-- 2nd Technical Group
-- 2nd Security Group
-- 2nd Fighter Bomber Squadron (24 x F-4E)
-- 4th Fighter Bomber Squadron (18 x F-4E, 6 x RF-4E)
-- 6th Fighter Bomber Squadron (reserve, 18 x F-101B, 6 x RF-101C)
-- 10th Observation Squadron (24 x OV-10A)
-- 22nd Air Transport Squadron (12 x DHC-5, 12 x UH-1N)
-- 23rd Air Transport Squadron (reserve, 6 x C-130A, 6 x DHC-4)

- 3rd Wing (reserve, Naknek AFB)
-- 3rd Base Operations Group
-- 3rd Technical Group
-- 3rd Security Group

- 4th Wing (reserve, Shemya AFB)
-- 4th Base Operations Group
-- 4th Technical Group
-- 4th Security Group

- 5th Wing (reserve, Galenya AFB)
-- 5th Base Operations Group
-- 5th Technical Group
-- 5th Security Group


Air Defense Command ** (Eielsonski AFB)

- Command Support Group ADC

Nike-Hercules squadrons:
- 30th Missile Squadron (Junograd)
- 31st Missile Squadron (Stoyanka)
- 32nd Missile Squadron (Stoyanka)
- 33rd Missile Squadron (Krasiviyebyeryega)

Hawk Squadrons:
- 34th Missile Squadron (Junograd)
- 35th Missile Squadron (Stoyanka)
- 36th Missile Squadron (Krasiviyebyeryega)
- 37th Missile Squadron (reserve, Junograd)
- 38th Missile Squadron (reserve, Stoyanka)
- 39th Missile Squadron (reserve, Krasiviyebyeryega)

- 40th Radar Squadron (Elmendorov AFB)
- 41st Radar Squadron (Eielsonski AFB)
- 42nd Radar Squadron (Junograd)
- 43rd Radar Squadron (Shemya AFB)
- 44th Radar Squadron (Galenya AFB)
- 45th Radar Squadron (reserve, Naknek AFB)


Air Force Support Command ** (Elmendorov AFB)

- Command Support Group ASC (reserve)

- 50th Basic Training Squadron (Elmendorov AFB)
- 51st Basic Training Squadron (Elmendorov AFB)
- 52nd Basic Training Squadron (Eielsonski AFB)
- 53rd Basic Training Squadron (Eielsonski AFB)
- 54th Basic Training Squadron (Junograd)
- 55th Basic Training Squadron (Junograd)

- 1st Logistics Group (Elmendorov AFB)
- 2nd Logistics Group (Eielsonski AFB)
- 3rd Logistics Group (Junograd)
- 4th Logistics Group (reserve, Shemya AFB)
- 5th Logistics Group (reserve, Galenya AFB)
- 6th Logistics Group (reserve, Naknek AFB)

- 1st Replacement Group (reserve, Elmendorov AFB)
- 2nd Replacement Group (reserve, Eielsonski AFB)
- 3rd Replacement Group (reserve, Junograd)
- 4th Replacement Group (reserve, Shemya AFB)
- 5th Replacement Group (reserve, Galenya AFB)
- 6th Replacement Group (reserve, Naknek AFB)


As with the Army, when looking closer I found it necessary to trim a couple more units off the Air Force to reach my new target strength of 10,000 active personnel, of which 6,000 cadre. I therefore amalgamated the light airlift and helicopter squadrons and deleted two Nike squadrons. However, I beefed up the reserves here too, turning the logistics and replacement squadrons into groups, where only one squadron of the active units will usually be present in peacetime. Mobilized strength therefore is now 28,000.


Navy High Command *** (Stoyanka)

- Navy High Command Support Battalion


Naval Operations Command ** (Stoyanka)

- Naval Operations Command Support Battalion

- 1st Corvette Squadron (Stoyanka, 9 x Vickers Vedette FFL, 1 x corvette tender)
- 2nd Corvette Squadron (Stoyanka, 9 x Vosper Thornycroft Mk 4 FFL, 1 x corvette tender)

- 1st Submarine Squadron (Stoyanka, 4 x Type 209 SSK, 1 x submarine tender)

- 1st Minesweeper Squadron (semi-active; Stoyanka, 12 x Type Bluebird MSC, 1 x minesweeper tender)

- 1st Training Squadron (Stoyanka, 12 x training cutter, 1 x training ship)

- 1st Maritime Patrol Aircraft Squadron (Kodiak, 9 x CP-107, replacement with CP-140 planned)
- 2nd Maritime Patrol Aircraft Squadron (Kodiak, reserve, 9 x P-2H)
- 3rd Helicopter Squadron (Kodiak, 12 x CH-124A)

- Amphibious Group (semi-active; Kodiak, 4 x Type Sir Bedivere LST, 16 x LCU, 56 x Tpbs 200)

- Special Operations Company (Kodiak)


Coastal Command ** (Stoyanka)

- Coastal Command Support Battalion (reserve)

- Stoyanka Base Operations Regiment
- Kodiak Base Operations Regiment
- Novoarkhangelsk Base Operations Regiment (reserve)

- 1st Navy Logistics Battalion (Stoyanka)
- 2nd Navy Logistics Battalion (reserve, Novoarkhangelsk)
- 3rd Navy Logistics Battalion (reserve, Kodiak)
- 4th Navy Logistics Battalion (reserve, Stoyanka)

- 1st Navy Training Battalion (Stoyanka)
- 2nd Navy Training Battalion (reserve, Novoarkhangelsk)
- 3rd Navy Training Battalion (reserve, Kodiak)
- 4th Navy Training Battalion (reserve, Stoyanka)


The Navy needed some change of types to keep a balanced fleet with a personnel of 10,000, of which 6,000 cadre; manning requirements for the US vessels just killed me. I hate to see the Brookes go, but in reality no navy this size runs FFGs in the 80s. I took the opportunity to disband the dedicated Replenishment Squadron too, and give each Corvette Squadron a tender that will be of the same type as my large training vessel. These three are Canadian-built and not dissimiliar to the RCN's Annapolis-class helicopter escort destroyers, but obviously slower and geared towards support rather than combat.

As added benefits of the Brooke's demise, I can standardize on the ubiquitous OTO Melara 76 mm Compact, which is better suited to the corvettes in particular than the old manually loaded 127 mm L/38; two each will go on the VT Mk 4s and one each on the Vickers Vedettes and tenders, eliminating the 40 mm Bofors at the same time. Also, I can replace the Seasprite helicopters with more capable Seakings.

I saved my submarine force by replacing the Barbels with German 209s, which have less than half the manning requirements. Likewise, the Terrebonne Parish LSTs were replaced by British Sir Bevideres. I can now even run half of my minesweepers and LCUs in peacetime plus two additional corvettes. Mobilized strength is 20,000, including one additional training and logistics battalion each now; only 5,000 reservists on immediate recall remain unassigned to the regular forces now and will instead be mobilized with the


Homeguard

- 1st Kenai Homeguard Battalion

- 1st Krasiviyebyeryega Homeguard Battalion
- 2nd Krasiviyebyeryega Homeguard Battalion

- 1st Matanuska Homeguard Battalion

- 1st Stoyanka Homeguard Battalion
- 2nd Stoyanka Homeguard Battalion (Naval)
- 3rd Stoyanka Homeguard Battalion
- 4th Stoyanka Homeguard Battalion

- 1st Central Homeguard Company
- 2nd Central Homeguard Company
- 3rd Central Homeguard Company (Naval)
- 4th Central Homeguard Company
- 5th Central Homeguard Company
- 6th Central Homeguard Company (Naval)

- 1st Junograd Homeguard Company
- 2nd Junograd Homeguard Company (Naval)
- 3rd Junograd Homeguard Company

- 1st Ketchikan Homeguard Company
- 2nd Ketchikan Homeguard Company (Naval)

- 1st Kodiak Homeguard Company
- 2nd Kodiak Homeguard Company (Naval)

- 1st Northern Homeguard Company

- 1st Nortwest Homeguard Company

- 1st Novoarkhangelsk Homeguard Company

Upon mobilization, each Homeguard unit will spawn as many as seven others of its own size, in part utilizing 1,500 reserve cadre personnel not assigned to the regular forces and bringing mobilized strength to 80,000. The wartime strength of all the armed forces therefore is 145,000 + 28,000 + 20,000 + 80,000 = 273,000. Not counting the Coast Guard, which I still have to look at.
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#45 BansheeOne

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 0650 AM

Random equipment adjustments to the last TO&E:

The new brigade tank companies will be rather beefy with three platoons of six Leopard 1A4 each plus two at HQ for a total of 20. With the deletion of the Armored Cavalry Regiment, the AIFV-25 is gone, so I'm putting Oerlikon GDD-BOE 35 mm turrets on the Piranhas in the active brigade recon companies IOT standardize ammunition with the Gepards and Oerlikon AA guns in the air defense brigade.

My new corvette tenders/training vessels have a length of 112 meters, beam of 15 meters, displacement of 3,800 tons at full load and make 21 knots. Armament is a OTO Melara 76 mm gun, two 20 mm Oerlikon GAI-CO6, two triple Mk 32 torpedo mounts and minelaying capability; a Phalanx is planned to be added. They also have a flight deck and hangar for one Seaking. Complement is 228 including embarked squadron staff or cadets.

The minesweeper/submarine tenders are overall similiar, but only 95 meters long with 2,800 tons full load displacement and no aviation facilities. Complement is 170. I'm of a mind to use the type as large cutters for the Coast Guard, too.

As previously mentioned, the corvettes have their 127 mm guns replaced by OTO Melaras too; the VT Mk 4s also swap their Bofors 40 mm twin mounts for those. As I'm getting rid of the Bofors, the minesweepers trade theirs for Oerlikon 20 mm mounts, eliminating another ammunition type.

Of course after recalculating manning requirements for my surface combat units, I find that if I got off this whole corvette idea, I could as well run four FFGs and 16 FACs; closer to the original approach, though of course smaller missile boats would not be as seaworthy. It might still be worth checking out.
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#46 BansheeOne

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 0919 AM

*sigh* That's the problem with ships, they don't come just in neat mass-produced types, but damn near everybody can build them in his own yards, modifying existing plans or making up his own ...

I'm looking at the Norwegian Oslo class, which was based upon the US Dealey class and modified for local conditions, same as the Portuguese Pereira da Silva class. By my napkin calculation, the Mk 22 Standard Missile launcher should fit on a ship displacing about 1,800 tons standard; the Oslos are just below that. I wonder if I can make my own mini-FFGs.
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#47 shep854

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 1037 AM

WOW...I think a certain German bureaucrat is seriously bored--is the Bundestag out of session?:P
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#48 BansheeOne

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 1234 PM

Until this weekend actually. Which is a fortunate coincidence, because I'm approaching burnout on this topic; it's a wonder I'm not crunching personnel numbers in my sleep yet.
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#49 Kentucky-roughrider

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 1331 PM

BansheeOne, I personally have enjoyed reading about how you would design that military orginization, thank you for a good read. I am not sure if losing that Armored Cavarly regiment is something I would agree with or not. However wouldn't a unit similar in design to a US tank destroyer battilion give more bang for your buck?
Do you have a reason for picking the Leopard 1 tank over the Vickers main battle tank ?
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#50 BansheeOne

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 1455 PM

I chose the Leopard for commonality with Canada and, frankly, because I have an obvious national bias towards German tanks; in my mind, the previous type was the M48 rather than the Centurion after all (seeing that Canada only bought the Leopard in 1979, the M48 is probably still around in the reserves). I have to admit I never considered the Vickers either.

I didn't like giving up the Cavalry Regiment either, but I'm maybe too firmly wedded to the square structure of my mobilization-dependent units with three quarters inactive, so it was easier to delete whole branch regiments, then save some of their capability by attaching companies to other units. The alternative to the cavalry would have been cutting one of the ranger regiments, and I was prepared to delete the Airborne Rangers and give jump training to some units of the other two regiments instead as the next step when I thought I would need to save even more posts in the Army. But I priorized light infantry higher given the terrain, and actually managed to keep all 160 tanks - the personnel savings are in the mechanized infantry platoons, SPH batteries and HSS troops of the former cav squadrons.
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#51 Brian Kennedy

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 1522 PM

Banshee, if you're still bored you might dig Michael Chabon's The Yiddish Policeman's Union (http://en.wikipedia....licemen's_Union). Basically, In 1940 the US (implementing a proposal that apparently existed in the real world) establishes Alaska as a refuge of E. European Jews, Israel is destroyed in '48, and Alaska becomes more-or-less a new Jewish homeland. No word on their Order of Battle though. :)
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#52 thekirk

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 1609 PM

This whole thread could be taken as an illustration of why the German German Staff managed to run circles around the rest of us for so long... This is what passes for entertainment, apparently, in those circles.

Outside of Germany, the only people likely to be doing this are somewhat monomaniacal hobbyist basement-dwellers. The Germans apparently identify and put those people into staff positions in their military. ;)

Seriously, though--Amazing work, and very interesting to watch as you build it. If I ever need to work out an MTOE for the military of some imaginary world I'm creating, I think I know who I'll seek out as a collaborator.
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#53 Kentucky-roughrider

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 2053 PM

The reasons why I questioned you about that was the Vickers had heavier armor, a fairly cheap and simple tank for the time, with the same firepower as the leopard 1. And in the role I saw it being used in the protection would me more important that mobliity advantage of the Leopard 1 (that is based on the specs I have found online and we all know how trustworthy they can be). the reason I asked asked about the cavalry regiment is, shouldn't armor be used in mass instead of piecemeal? However, I can also see the advaantage of placing tanks in the infantry brigade.

I can understand why you would have put a premuim on skilled light infantry as well, which might be more important in that situation.

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#54 Old Tanker

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 0049 AM

I think it's far more likely that Alaska would have become a Russian Taiwan. I agree with the thekirk though that the ramifications involved in Alaska not being sold to the US may have been far-reaching. Was there a possibility of it being sold to Britain as T19 wrote?


Russki not happy with Brits over Crimea.....No way Jose !
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#55 BansheeOne

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 0442 AM

Outside of Germany, the only people likely to be doing this are somewhat monomaniacal hobbyist basement-dwellers.


That would be me. And I quit my contract three months into my career as an officer candidate.

I have to say the result has lots of influence from Germany, Scandinavia, the US and even the Commonwealth ... but nothing overtly from Russia. :D

The reasons why I questioned you about that was the Vickers had heavier armor, a fairly cheap and simple tank for the time, with the same firepower as the leopard 1. And in the role I saw it being used in the protection would me more important that mobliity advantage of the Leopard 1 (that is based on the specs I have found online and we all know how trustworthy they can be). the reason I asked asked about the cavalry regiment is, shouldn't armor be used in mass instead of piecemeal?


Yeah, I know. "Klotzen, nicht kleckern", as per Guderian. Actually the tank companies have taken the place of a brigade tank destroyer company I originally wanted to include per the German Cold War organisation; but I already had the TOW platoons in the infantry battalions, and couldn't replicate gun TDs on a Piranha chassis in the truck-mounted reserve brigades, so I left that out. When I disbanded the Cavalry Regiment, I just plugged the companies into the empty socket.

Of course I could hold my tanks together in a conventional armor regiment with no organic mechanized infantry and SPHs and about two thirds the personnel savings of the current solution. But then the whole idea behind armored cavalry is to act as scouts and fire brigade in self-contained units. Pure armor units would as likely as not be split up to work with infantry in combat, and my tank companies of 20 already have the strength of half a battalion.

I have actually toyed with the idea of fusing them with the brigade recon companies though, which would be a bit like your suggestion of tank destroyer battalions; I could call them Brigade Cavalry Squadrons. That would however again speak for the speedier Leopard, while the slower but better protected Vickers MBT would be better suited as infantry support. Let me run the numbers and see if that's worthwhile.
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#56 Simon Tan

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 0731 AM

These are not Russian.
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#57 BansheeOne

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 0950 AM

Well, it's what living in North America for six decades will do to you. If you hired Germans to design your military, that is. :D


Infantry Brigade (215/762/4,378//5,355)

- HQ Company (14/40/182//236)

- 3 x Infantry Battalion, each 36/134/802//972:
-- HSS Company (12 x Piranha for active units, trucks for reserves; 13/38/178//229)
-- 3 x Infantry Company (18 x Piranha each for active units, trucks for reserves; 6/24/164//194)
-- Weapons Company (6 x Piranha w/ TOW, 6 x w/ 81 mm L6 mortar, 6 x w/ 40 mm Mk 19 AGL for active units, trucks for reserves; 5/24/132//161)


- Cavalry Squadron (28/89/412//529)
-- HSS Troop (1 x Leopard 1A3, 1 x Piranha w/ 35 mm GDD-BOE turret, 4 x command vehicle; 13/38/178//229)
-- 3 x Cavalry Troop (9 x Leopard 1A3, 5 x Piranha w/ 35 mm GDD-BOE turret, 2 x w/ 81 mm L6 mortar, 2 x command vehicle, 1 x ambulance for active units, M48 and gun trucks for reserves; 5/17/78//100)

- Artillery Battalion (28/95/544//667)
-- HSS Battery (13/38/178//229)
-- 3 x Field Gun Battery (8 x 105 mm L118 each for active units, M102 for reserves; 5/19/98//122)

- Support Battalion (37/136/834//1,007)
-- HSS Company (13/38/178//229)
-- Engineer Company (6/24/164//194)
-- Maintenance Company (6/24/164//194)
-- Logistics Company (6/24/164//194)
-- Medical Company (6/24/164//194)



This is a bit lazy, assuming the same strength for HSS companies of all battalion types and treating all support companies like infantry. Still, my hitherto used rule-of-thumb to assume 180 for any type of company-level unit proves amazingly accurate at this level; the true average value in the brigade is 185.

This also means that with the cavalry squadron I now have 300 additional personnel in the brigade, or 600 for both active infantry brigades. That’s not too bad; I wonder if I can disband the Air Defense Brigade, put a Gepard platoon into the cavalry squadrons, an AA battery into the artillery battalions and the Rapier Battalion into one of the artillery brigades, thus saving a HQ and HSS battery and a logistics battalion in compensation.
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#58 Kentucky-roughrider

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 1014 AM

I know you can't just create more personal just because you want them there, exspecially when there are not in your population to begin with. But, it is hard to bet the versatility of a armored cavalry regiment,which might be something very important to a small force like that.


One question with the missile only antitank teams, what is the failure rate among Milian or TOW missles compared to anti tank guns Assuming you had the money and man power how would a Sk 105 Kurassier work in that situation as a tank destroyer?
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#59 Simon Tan

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 1145 AM

This is terrible. Not since the madness of Paul has there been such nimiets in the Russian military. This is not North America, this is Russia. *gestures to the grand bleak landscape*.

I don't believe that the Piranhas make that much sense. Would BandVagns not be better? Even M113s with ostketten as needed. I would imagine the demands of winter really predicate against the wheeled death traps.

Also, they do need more Recce/Scout type assets given the nature of Alaskan AO. I would imagine at least a Recce Platoon in Skidoos, ATVs and Jeeps (generic 4x4 vis M38 etc.)

Third, the tough conditions almost certainly warrant a pioneer platoon in the HQ Co. The engineer company at Bde is not really adequate.

Again, the attached Cavalry Regiment (e.g. Petrovsky) should not have Piranhas for the same reasons as the infantry. The M114/Lynx is a non-starter but a NM135-a-like is possible. Or even an aarly Bv206S.....35mm cannon in the 1980s.....ridiculous. A 20mm gun is quite adequate.....
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#60 BansheeOne

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 1302 PM

The Bandvagns are in the ranger regiments. Again, given the vastness of the land, my main concern for the bulk of forces is operational rather than tactical mobility. No vehicle will climb a mountain, and if you're limited to the valleys where the roads are, so is the invader - but you have to go there to block him, or you will fight him in the suburbs.

That said, the current makeup of the cavalry squadrons is a holdover from the earlier active brigade recon companies equipped with Piranhas for commonality with the infantry battalions. Now that I have tanks in the brigades, I'm thinking of making the cavalry all-tracked again. I've thought of the CVR(T) series, but the NM135 looks interesting; I'm definitely not going back to the AIFV-25, but have this other very German urge to give every Ivan, Vlad and Yuri in support units light AA. The twin 35 mm would be a handful for that, while 20 x 139 mm is easy, so it would make sense to have the ammo in the system; the Navy is already using it after all.

Of course, I now find that after saving six companies' worth by disbanding the Cavalry Regiment, I have added six again through the brigade cavalry squadrons. :rolleyes: Well, it was to be expected somehow. You guys win, I'll bring the regiment back. Which reopens the question of the recon companies, now again wheeled. Maybe the V-150? I could also use that for security units, including the Guards Regiment. And I need to save in some other place; looking at the Air Defense Brigade again.

There are scout and pioneer platoons in the infantry HSS companies BTW, which is why they are so large. I need to post a more detailled breakdown of the battalion sometime.
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