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Main Gun Ammo - Revisited


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#21 gewing

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Posted 29 December 2005 - 2233 PM

...Swiss 120mm training ammo.

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So...

How much would a penetrator cost? Just to put on the mantel...


NOT DU! :) just a penetrator.


oh well, I probably couldn't afford much more than a cup of coffee right now. :(

#22 Davin

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Posted 29 December 2005 - 2252 PM

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Unknown non-Russian 125mm APFSDS round. :)

#23 Djuice

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 0428 AM

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Type-86

Caliber: 100 mm
Muzzle velocity
Tungsten-alloy APFSDS: 1610 m/sec
Maximum range
HE: 13500 m
Point-blank range
Tungsten-alloy APFSDS: 1800m
HEAT: 1050m
Rate of fire: 8 ~ 10 rds/min
Penetration
Tungsten-alloy APFSDS(at the range of 1500 m): 150 mm/65°
HEAT: 120 mm/65°
Traverse: 52°
Elevation: -4°~ + 38°
Dimensions in traveling position
Length: 9520 mm
Width: 2188 mm
Height: 1838 mm
Total weight
In traveling position: 3660 kg
In firing position: 3610 kg
Weights of complete round
Tungsten-alloy APFSDS: 14.88 kg
Weight of projectile
Tungsten-alloy APFSDS: 5.30 kg



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Type-56 85-mm

Caliber:85 mm
Muzzle velocity (HE shell, Full charge): 793 m/sec
Maximum range: 15,650 m
Point-black range(HE shell, Full charge): 950 m
Elevation: -7°~ + 35°
Traverse: 54°
Total weight in firing position: 1,725 kgs
Rate of fire: 15 ~ 20 rds/min
Road speed
On asphalt pavement: 60 km/hr
On country road: 35 km/hr
Cross county: 15 km/hr
Time to emplace: 40 ~ 60 sec

#24 Djuice

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 0442 AM

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http://armor.kiev.ua...weapon/125.html


Experimental shaped-charge shell

Until today - this is the only projectile in the world with the tandem arrangement of two shaped charges, which ensures the addition of penetration from each of the charges. In the antitank missile [ATGM] there are no special problems associated with make a tandem warhead. There are vital differences between projectiles and rockets [PTUR] – firing acceleration load, the thickness of projectile housing, the overall size of the warhead and, as a result, fundamentally different conditions to the coordination of operations of two shaped charges.

The characteristics, given below in the table, do not have analogs among the projectiles of similar designation and class - until today this type of projectile simply did not exist. Suffice it to say that the development of this projectile to its logical and practical completion was conducted more than 10 years, were obtained more than 50 author's certificates of invention. Many scientific, technical, technological problems were solved. For the first time projectile was demonstrated on the exhibition of armaments in Abu- Dhabi in 1994.

The development of this unique projectile was executed in Institute of Applied Physics under the direct management of professor, academician OF ATN RF, premier state laureate of the USSR, General Director and Creator of this Institute V. F. Minina.

It is interesting to note that, until now, in the highly respected western publications such as the reference book “Jane's”, different releases have presented various explanations about the principles of the work of this projectile As far as we know, there does not exist in the world a similar development.

The experimental shaped-charge shell is intended for the defeat of the armored equipment equipped with the built-in and attached explosive reactive armor.

The projectile is compatible with the smooth-bore tank guns of the caliber of 125 mm (2A46M, 2A46M-1) and with systems of aiming and the automated loading.

The basic special feature of the projectile is the tandem arrangement of two main cumulative charges, which increases armor penetration in sequential effect. [NOTE: There is also a small tip charge to detonate explosive reactive armor.]

Fundamental tactical-technical characteristics

Projectile Caliber: 125mm
Projectile Mass: 19kg
Effective Firing Range: 1010m
Maximum Firing Range: 4000m
Penetration: 700-800mm RHAe
Penetration at 60 degrees from normal: 350-400mm RHAe
Armor penetration against armor enhanced by explosive reactive armor
Integrated ERA: 300-330mm RHAe
Add-On Modular ERA: 320-350mm RHAe

#25 gewing

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 1540 PM

VERY interesting.

#26 Djuice

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Posted 31 December 2005 - 0101 AM

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Edited by Djuice, 31 December 2005 - 0632 AM.


#27 Djuice

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Posted 31 December 2005 - 0154 AM

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Polynege ammunition is a "Top Attack" 120mm Shell which comes as a compliment to APFSDS shells which are design to defeat MBT beyond the line of sight. ITs versatility would also allow it to engage other targets such as Light armoured vehicles, dismounted troops, infrastructures, and low/slow flying aerodynes.

Polynege will meet all of STANAG 4385 and MOPI AEP 26 requirements and will be able to fire from LeClerc, Abrams M1 series, Leopard 2, C1 Arietes and other tanks armed with 120mm smoothbore guns.

Total Weight: 28 Kgs
Total Length: 984mm
Projectile Weight: 20 Kgs
Muzzle Velocity: 600m/s - 800m/s
Cartridge Case Type: Combustible
TPA Type: Semi-Combustible
Range: > 2000m to <7000m
Penetration Effectiveness: All NATO Targets, and Specific Targets

#28 gewing

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Posted 01 January 2006 - 1721 PM

snip
Polynege ammunition is a "Top Attack" 120mm Shell which comes as a compliment to APFSDS shells which are design to defeat MBT beyond the line of sight. ITs versatility would also allow it to engage other targets such as Light armoured vehicles, dismounted troops, infrastructures, and low/slow flying aerodynes.

Polynege will meet all of STANAG 4385 and MOPI AEP 26 requirements and will be able to fire from LeClerc, Abrams M1 series, Leopard 2, C1 Arietes and other tanks armed with 120mm smoothbore guns.

Total Weight: 28 Kgs
Total Length: 984mm
Projectile Weight: 20 Kgs
Muzzle Velocity: 600m/s - 800m/s
Cartridge Case Type: Combustible
TPA Type: Semi-Combustible
Range: > 2000m to <7000m
Penetration Effectiveness: All NATO Targets, and Specific Targets

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That is rather interesting. Who is building it? Side firing EFP, it looks like. What is the seeker?

#29 Jussi Saari

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 0016 AM

That is rather interesting.  Who is building it? Side firing EFP, it looks like. What is the seeker?

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If it's not IR/EO which it obviously is not, then I suppose it has to be MMW.

What is odd is how the warhead appears to be side-firing EFP, but the trajectory would seem to end in about 45-degree dive onto the target.. which would mean the EFP slug would have a good chance of landing just a bit before the target?

#30 gewing

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 0146 AM

If it's not IR/EO which it obviously is not, then I suppose it has to be MMW.

What is odd is how the warhead appears to be side-firing EFP, but the trajectory would seem to end in about 45-degree dive onto the target.. which would mean the EFP slug would have a good chance of landing just a bit before the target?

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good call on the MMW, it is about the only thing that makes sense, given the way the nose is drawn.

I also agree that the illustrated trajectory looks wrong for the apparent warhead. Maybe a bad illustration?

I had read that modern computer designed warheads and explosives allowed for high performance side firing EFP warheads.

fired from tank guns. I had forgotten as soon as I read it, that it was not a mortar round.

About an 8km range? The drawing must not be too accurate, unless it is under aerodynamic control from launch. the angle looks too steep for most tank guns to fire, particularly in a battle field environment.

Still, an interesting weapon.

#31 arcweasel

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 1555 PM

About an 8km range?  The drawing must not be too accurate, unless it is under aerodynamic control from launch.  the angle looks too steep for most tank guns to fire, particularly in a battle field environment. 

Still, an interesting weapon.

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It looks like it reaches 100m elevation after 300m of flight which is about 18degrees. IIRC most main guns can do about 20. I just cant figure why it would not use a standard HEAT warhead. Perhaps they have a second flyover mode for close range targets?

Regards,

Jay

#32 gewing

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Posted 06 January 2006 - 0201 AM

It looks like it reaches 100m elevation after 300m of flight which is about 18degrees.  IIRC most main guns can do about 20.  I just cant figure why it would not use a standard HEAT warhead.  Perhaps they have a second flyover mode for close range targets?

Regards,

Jay

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That was what I assumed. Kind of like the midrange munition or whatever the FCS program is calling it.

#33 Vasiliy Fofanov

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 1130 AM

That is rather interesting.  Who is building it?


GIAT, France.

Side firing EFP, it looks like.


Definitely. And I agree that it is inconsistent with the shown attack trajectory. Possible explanation is that there exists or used to exist a forward-firing warhead variant.

#34 Vasiliy Fofanov

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 1132 AM

105 mm ound - right, and a round unknown to me...

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That's a CTA round developed by...well...CTA :)

#35 Harkonnen

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 1137 AM

Unknown non-Russian 125mm APFSDS round.


Chekh round for 125, according to Suvorov

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#36 Przezdzieblo

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 1146 AM

Chekh round for 125, according to Suvorov

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Czech? Maybe so called 125/EPpSv-97?

Edited by Przezdzieblo, 02 February 2006 - 1148 AM.


#37 Guest_bojan_*

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 1822 PM

Ok here is a rarity - Serbian M93 125mm APFSDS. Now my guess is that it is actualy a copy of some other round but question is what round? Israely (probable)? France (also probable)?

http://elektron.tmf....3_apfsds_02.jpg

Edited by bojan, 28 July 2006 - 0619 AM.


#38 Jim Warford

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 0624 AM

...Chinese 105mm HEAT.

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#39 jwduquette1

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 1352 PM

...Chinese 105mm HEAT.

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Is the Chinese probe\spike somewhat longer than what we typically see on M456A1 – i.e. increased stand-off? I can't tell if there is a cover over the fuse or if the Chinese have added a bit of stand-off.

The length difference is actually a bit more pronounced than what's portrayed in my comparison. Moreover, in the China photo, the round is rotated somewhat more toward the photographer than the rotation in the M456A1 photo. The Chinese probe therefore looks a bit shorter than if it were orientated at the same angle as the M456A1 photo.

Regards
JD

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#40 Davin

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 2220 PM

Taiwanese TC84 105mm APFSDS.
weight:19.2kg
length:990mm
propellant:double-base M26
penetrator:W alloy
MV:1455m/s
penetration:450mm RHA @2000m

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