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History of Soviet tanks


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#41 RETAC21

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 0725 AM

838?  First you said several hundreds
there were 2256 T-80 and 3990 T-64 A/in GSVG in 1986-87.

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Add them up on your table, they sum 838 too! :huh:

#42 Harkonnen

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 0741 AM

Add them up on your table, they sum 838 too! 


My souce T-80 Tank (M. baryatinski)

#43 Harkonnen

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 0805 AM

Don't get snappy with me! I'm making an observation that is widely supported.

Don't eat what is "widely supported", use you personal brains.

The F-15 enters production quickly followed by a series of Russian aircraft with similar charasteristics and appearances. The Concord is hearlded as a furturistic aircraft that was supposed to change public transportation. Russians spies were identified and covertly given fake blueprints of the Concord. The Russians built their copy but reportedly had numerous problems. There are several other examples of western countries developing an iten to suddenly see an incrediblly resembling copy come out of Russia a few years later. Now we have a picture of a possible Russian MBT that looks like an American FCS design I saw about ten or more years ago. I don't think its just coinsidence. If you can't beat'm, emulate'm.


You are another victim of mass media. You may have seen such american FCS design about ten years ago, how do you know WHEN Russians used it to make such stupid claims.

Look here it is Mig -25 (1969) and F-15 (1972)

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So the US copied Mig-25! What a shame! :D

And this evil Europeans copied Russian Mig-23 PREDECESSOR!!!

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From 1962! :lol:


Lets face it. Russian military has taken a huge number of blows in the last ten years; Iraqi T-72s, The Kursk, Chechnya, and the rusting Black Sea fleet are but a few.

You are another flamer in this topic.

The Russians have lost a lot of money on military exports and are trying hard to recover. They are getting some good deals out of Pakistan, China and such


Can you name Russian deals with Pakistan?

but not like in the old days.


During several recent years Russia almost reached the scale of military trade of Soviet Union.

Edited by Harkonnen, 10 January 2006 - 0810 AM.


#44 LOSBLOS

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 0831 AM

So the key idea is that T-72 was not the primary Soviet tank, it was exported worldwide to any nation possible. While no T-64 or T-80 was ever exported (After Soviet Union T-80U was exported to ROK, Cyprus and T-80UD to Pakistan)

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The most important threads of Soviet tank development after 1966

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[/quote]

Other information says:
Ob194/195(Nizhny Tagil) Ob449X(Molozov) Ob230X/231X/232X(Popov)
are competing for T-95, and the Ob195 won, became T-95.

Looks like the three black profiles of all7zr.gif just fit in: :lol:
Upper (T-95) =====> Ob194/195
Middle (Ob447)====> Ob449X
Lower==========> Ob230X /231X /232X

Is there any further clue about the development about T-95? :)

#45 Charles

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 0832 AM

And this evil Europeans copied Russian Mig-23 PREDECESSOR!!!

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From 1962! :lol:


Harkonnen, Why was this protoype dropped for the Mig 23?. Would it be for the same reasons that UK TSR 2 was dropped (similar time period)?



#46 Harkonnen

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 0838 AM

Harkonnen, Why was this protoype dropped for the Mig 23?. Would it be for the same reasons that UK TSR 2 was dropped (similar time period)?


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This protoype was dropped because the military wished veried wing geometry plane, it was fashionable that days. Though the plane showed excellent results after the crash of the 1-st prototype no futher fights were dne.

#47 Harkonnen

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 0844 AM

Other information says:
Ob194/195(Nizhny Tagil) Ob449X(Molozov) Ob230X/231X/232X(Popov)
are competing for T-95, and the Ob195 won, became T-95.

Looks like the three black profiles of all7zr.gif just fit in: 
Upper (T-95) =====> Ob194/195
Middle (Ob447)====> Ob449X
Lower==========> Ob230X /231X /232X


I assume your info is from chiniese "Tanks and armored vechicles"?
Maybe 449 it is another mod of 447M or so. Anyway Ukrainian tank could not compete with Russians after the USSR broke apart.
As for the Popov's tans they are working in a bit another field this days - unmanned combat and support vechicles.
Funny the Spezmash 2 -mann tank hull was shown accidantly on TV during the water test, the comentor said it is new swimming tank :lol:

#48 Charles

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 0852 AM

This protoype was dropped  because the military wished veried wing geometry plane, it was fashionable that days. Though the plane showed excellent results after the crash of the 1-st prototype no futher fights were dne.

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Harkonnen,Thank you.
Shame really, that looks like a real beautiful interceptor, especially for 1962. Looks like both East and West were Designing and prototyping some lovely aircraft back then. TSR2, B 70 to name but a few that got cancelled; but performed superbly. Apologies for taking this a little off topic :)
Back to the Tanks :P

Charles

#49 LOSBLOS

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 0855 AM

I assume your info is from  chiniese "Tanks and armored vechicles"?
Maybe 449 it is another mod of 447M or so. Anyway Ukrainian tank could not compete with Russians after the USSR broke apart.
As for the Popov's tans they are working in a bit another field this days - unmanned combat and support vechicles. 
Funny the Spezmash 2 -mann tank hull was shown accidantly on TV during the water test, the comentor said it is new swimming tank  :lol:

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Yes, you are right. :lol:
From Chinese "Tanks and armored vechicles" (ISSN 1001-8778) 2004 December, pp. 16-19.

It says the competition was in late 1980s,
After the break up of USSR, the 449X is out.

Although it looks to fit in, all the pictures in the Chinese magazine looks very different from the black profiles in all7_.gif. :rolleyes:

#50 Harkonnen

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 0901 AM

Although it looks to fit in, all the pictures in the Chinese magazine looks very different from the black profiles in all7_.gif.


Some Chieniese 3D max expert .... :)

#51 Harkonnen

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 0924 AM

It says the competition was in late 1980s,
After the break up of USSR, the 449X is out.


The were no o. 195 project in the end 80-th. They were working on o. 187

#52 Przezdzieblo

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 1327 PM

Nice diagrams, Harkonnen.


The same story with armor while the T-64-s and T-80 was equipment with high cost composite armor the T-72 had the simplest possible sand rods and then reflecting plates which were much less valuable than advanced compositions of T-80U

AFAIR on this board there was nice dissusion of sand rods and corundum armour. T-72s of 1976 serie probably got similar turret armour composition (Al2O3 in STEF) as T-64B (and T-64A 1974+). Was it changed to sand rods only for economical reasons? How better was T-64B turret protection compared with T-72A/M1?


Ad diagram

What is T-80R (T-80P)? Is it Object 219R - T-80B?
What is T-80RW (T-80PB) Is it Object 219RW - T-80BW?
What is T-80A and how it differs from T-80 and T-80B?
What does it mean усовершенствованная? Casted?
T-80U is Object 219AS?
Was Object 278 closer to T-64 than T-80 as at pic?

#53 gnocci

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 1337 PM

...
What does it mean усовершенствованная? Casted?
...

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I know, i know! "Improved".

#54 Djuice

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 1338 PM

What is the object 178? T-90M?

#55 Harkonnen

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 1340 PM

Was it changed to sand rods only for economical reasons?

Yes.

How better was T-64B turret protection compared with T-72A/M1?
Ad diagram


About 25% of both KE and CE

What is T-80R (T-80P)? Is it Object 219R - T-80B?
What is T-80RW (T-80PB) Is it Object 219RW - T-80BW?


It is how they called officialy - http://specmash-kb.c...ell.php?lng=eng

What is T-80A and how it differs from T-80 and T-80B?

New turret and hull which was later used on T-80U/UD

What does it mean усовершенствованная? Casted?


Improved.

T-80U is Object 219AS?

Correct.

Was Object 278 closer to T-64 than T-80 as at pic?


Don't understand the question.

#56 Harkonnen

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 1342 PM

What is the object 178? T-90M?


They are separate programs. I did not seen M designation for T-90 in Russia. All export versions are designated T-90C so far. The complictation may varygreatly.

Edited by Harkonnen, 10 January 2006 - 1343 PM.


#57 Harkonnen

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Posted 11 January 2006 - 0751 AM

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#58 Guest_bojan_*

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Posted 11 January 2006 - 0916 AM

What is the object 178? T-90M?

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New tank project, based on the T-72 but with diferent front hull (looked like Leo-2 front hull) and velded turret - turret was later used on the T-90.

#59 Harkonnen

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Posted 11 January 2006 - 0925 AM

New tank project, based on the T-72 but with diferent front hull (looked like Leo-2 front hull)  and velded turret - turret was later used on the T-90.

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No, T-90 used rather simillar looking but different turret.

#60 Harkonnen

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Posted 11 January 2006 - 0928 AM

It is not o. 187 but it gives basic idea of what it is lokking like.

(model by Konstantin Kim ©)

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