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M50 "ontos", Revolver Feed Design?


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#1 Gavin-Phillips

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 1336 PM

This most curious-looking of vehicles has always fascinated me.  

 

However, recently while I've been reading up a bit on the M50 Ontos and the M56 Scorpion, I read on wikipedia that there was a study made on re-arming the Ontos which I was not aware of.

 

"In 1960 there was a brief study made to replace the Ontos's 106 mm rifles with a new 105 mm design that included a re-loading system similar to that on a revolver. This project was not accepted."

 

There doesn't seem to be any more details on this design which is a shame.  Does anyone know if a concept vehicle was actually ever built?  Was this 105mm a redesigned recoiless rifle or something more like a conventional tank gun, using the M50 as a chassis?

 

I do plan on picking up the Osprey New Vanguard book which covers both the M50 Ontos and the M56 Scorpion but if anyone can suggest other books which have information on the vehicle history/development and how they were used in combat, I'd certainly be interested in at least trying to get them to better understand these two early airborne armoured vehicles.

 

Thanks.

 

 



#2 Hakka

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 2310 PM

Maybe they made something similar to the BMP-1 turret with some sort of autoloader. 



#3 shootER5

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 0009 AM

Quick pic from my copy of Hunnicut's Sheridan:

nMzTmz3.jpg

 

 

The weapon was supposed to be the T237 Repeating Recoilless Rifle but I've been unable to find any photos or diagrams of it online.



#4 Panzermann

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 0447 AM

Anti-Tank Peacemaker :D

 

Sitting between the recoilless rifles with the gaps around the cylinder wold have been rather unfun, when firing with gas leaking out.



#5 shep854

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 0804 AM

Nagant revolver writ large?



#6 Panzermann

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 0901 AM

Nagant revolver writ large?

 

I presumed that it was supposed to shoot the same 106×607mmR as the M40 RR. So no extra long case mouth and the gases have to somehow must be vented out  to the rear as well.



#7 KV7

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 0912 AM

You could have a double seal and have the leaking gas vent out the rear.



#8 Gavin-Phillips

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 1113 AM

Wow pretty amazing stuff.  I had read before about some trials being conducted with using the Ontos hull as a tracked APC, but had never heard of a re-armed idea before.  

 

Thanks.



#9 mnm

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 1725 PM

Nagant revolver writ large?

Thinking of the gas leaks it would be a Dutch Oven writ large.



#10 shep854

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 1834 PM

How did the Germans seal the cylinder gap when they developed revolver cannon?



#11 rmgill

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 1859 PM

I can't resist...

3534hk.jpg



#12 Loopycrank

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 1616 PM

How did the Germans seal the cylinder gap when they developed revolver cannon?

 

The majority of revover cannons have consumable auxiliary seals on the front of each chamber of the cylinder.  This allows them to use standard ammunition without any gap-sealing features.

 

According to Chinn, the amount of cylinder gap flash scales up very quickly as the guns get bigger.  The cylinder gap flash from a magnum revolver will slice an unwary shooter's thumb off.  The cylinder gap flash from a revolver cannon, if left un-sealed, would slice the gun in half.



#13 TOW-2

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 1819 PM

 

How did the Germans seal the cylinder gap when they developed revolver cannon?

 

The majority of revover cannons have consumable auxiliary seals on the front of each chamber of the cylinder.  This allows them to use standard ammunition without any gap-sealing features.

 

According to Chinn, the amount of cylinder gap flash scales up very quickly as the guns get bigger.  The cylinder gap flash from a magnum revolver will slice an unwary shooter's thumb off.  The cylinder gap flash from a revolver cannon, if left un-sealed, would slice the gun in half.

 

 

Mythbusters (lord I hated that show) actually did do a good episode where they took a Casull .454 and "built" a simulated human hand out of chicken bones and flesh and fired it with the hand up near the cylinder: it looked like they'd stuffed an M80 into it.  Blew a couple of the "fingers" off, burns, etc.



#14 rmgill

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 1903 PM

Friend of mine did that for real with a .357. He normally shoots semi-auto pistols. I stay away from wheel guns of any substantial size for that reason.

Edited by rmgill, 14 August 2017 - 1903 PM.


#15 shep854

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 0900 AM

I've seen a photo of what's left after a shooter tried it.  Almost as ugly as the guy who tried to use a .50BMG cartridge as a hammer...



#16 Richard Lindquist

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 1031 AM

 

Nagant revolver writ large?

 

I presumed that it was supposed to shoot the same 106×607mmR as the M40 RR. So no extra long case mouth and the gases have to somehow must be vented out  to the rear as well.

 

If you look at the drawing, the gases are vented out and up simialr to a Brit Burney Gun.



#17 JWB

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 1157 AM



#18 Ken Estes

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 1322 PM

On topic, work was terminated still using the 105mm M27 in 1956. That sketch looks like an M56 variation.

 

 

http://www.dtic.mil/.../u2/a023513.pdf

see pp. 1-22 through 1-30

 

Details are in the Osprey volume cited.



#19 TOW-2

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 2220 PM

Great read, Ken.  Thanks as always!



#20 DougRichards

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 0634 AM

 

Callahan: I know what you're thinking: "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow my thumb clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?   [The thief gives up trying to retrieve his shotgun; Callahan picks it up and starts to walk away.] Thief: Hey! [Callahan turns around] I gots to know!   [Callahan aims his revolver and pulls the trigger, but the gun just clicks on an empty chamber, and he grins, laughs, and walks away.]   Thief: Son of a bitch!




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