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Dragoon And Its Friends


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#1 Dark_Falcon

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 1844 PM

My other attempt to post a new Stryker thread didn't work, so maybe this attempt will fare better:

 

With the old Stryker thread currently inaccessible, I'm creating a new one to showcase a US Army program that actually has come to work as it should.  As of late, Stryker variants have had their prototypes appear while staying on time and within budget, which given recent US military history is unusual to say the least.  Today's article looks at the the some firing trials of production Stryker Dragoons at Aberdeen Proving Ground:

 

 

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ABERDEEN PROVING GROUND, Md. -- As one of the first Soldiers to shoot a powerful 30 mm cannon from a new Stryker combat vehicle, Staff Sgt. Randall Engler was excited about what the weapon could do for his infantry squad.

"It's empowering," said Engler, of the 2nd Cavalry Regiment, which has asked the Army to give its Stryker fleet more lethality to deter Russia and other near-peer threats. "You're laying that hate [on a target] with a bigger round. It's doing a lot more damage and you're getting better effects."

Engler and 14 others from the regiment recently traveled from Germany to Aberdeen Proving Ground as part of a six-week test and training event on the new Stryker Infantry Carrier Vehicle, which is nicknamed "Dragoon" after the unit.

The Soldiers also tested the new CROWS-J system, a common remote-operated weapons station that allows troops to fire Javelin anti-tank guided missiles from the safety inside existing Stryker models.

"We try to get users on the platform early on, that's why there are crews from [2nd Cavalry] here now," said Col. Glenn Dean, the Army's Stryker program manager, during a media event Tuesday at Aberdeen.

Six Stryker vehicles from each 30 mm cannon and Javelin variant are slated to head to Germany this January, where more 2nd Cavalry Soldiers will be able to share their input. The Army hopes to field the combat vehicles in a forward location next summer when the regiment's 1st Squadron is expected to go to Poland, Dean added.

 

[break]

 

QUICK ACQUISITION

The acquisition of the 30 mm cannon-equipped Stryker, which began in the fall of 2015, was a relatively quick process. It took about 15 months from the receipt of funds to the delivery of ICV-D prototypes, said Maj. Gen. David Bassett, program executive officer for the Army's ground combat systems.

"You're seeing an acquisition timeline that was not driven by bureaucracy, but was driven by the actual activities and underlying tasks that we needed both our contractors and the Army team to do together," Bassett said.

The Dragoon vehicles also incorporated equipment from other Stryker variants, such as a mature turret that didn't require much software development and a mature chassis with a suspension that was already proven by the Stryker double-v hull program.

"One of the ways you make acquisition go faster is by picking things that don't require as much as those activities," he said. "It's not too long before you're hit with a very low probability of success if you're bringing in too many new things that are unproven."

The process, he added, demonstrated his office's commitment to get systems to Soldiers in a timely manner. "I'm not interested in developing [systems], I'm interested in delivering [them]," he said.

While additional resources have already been asked to equip a second brigade with the new vehicles, the general expects there could be modifications to the vehicle as more 2nd Cavalry Soldiers give their feedback.

"It would be more efficient in terms of resources to wait but our adversaries aren't waiting," he said, "so we're looking to lean forward to provide capabilities sooner rather than later."

Cost savings in hardware, though, as well as novel approaches to business operations and leveraging partner investments in the Dragoon vehicle program, have freed up money for the regiment to add another weapon system to its arsenal -- the remote Javelin system.

Stryker vehicles with the CROWS-J system will roll out to the regiment at the same time as the ICV-D vehicles, according to Dean, the program manager. "I didn't have to go back to the Army or Congress and ask for another dollar to execute this," he said.

 

This is the kind of focused improvement program the US Army needs more of.  I'll close with another photo of a round of one type of the 30mm ammo Stryker Dragoon uses:

 

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#2 wlewisiii

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 2235 PM

An article from Army.mil? Of course everything is roses to them. But they're still easy open tin cans like pop top soup with a cannon too small for real work but big enough to temp crews to stupid mistakes.

Ask the crews in a few years what they think of their toy vehicles, DF, if they the lucky ones.

#3 Dark_Falcon

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 1250 PM

An article from Army.mil? Of course everything is roses to them. But they're still easy open tin cans like pop top soup with a cannon too small for real work but big enough to temp crews to stupid mistakes.

Ask the crews in a few years what they think of their toy vehicles, DF, if they the lucky ones.

 

The Army is asking them, as crew feedback is going to be incorporated in to the 2nd production run of Stryker Dragoon.  I just found fairly good group of images from the tests at Aberdeen this past week and those images are this Twitter account: @SydneyFreedberg.  I'll post some later and some morearticles, but for now here's footage of the 30mm Bushmaster being test-fired from a Stryker Dragoon:

 



#4 mattblack

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 1254 PM

CROWS-J firing

https://youtu.be/iQxDoCnaLTs

#5 shep854

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 1344 PM

Article from Business Insider via Task & Purpose, with video of both the 30mm and Javelin vehicles:

http://taskandpurpos...m_content=image



#6 Dark_Falcon

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 2147 PM

"Col. Glenn Dean, US Army, project manager for Program Executive Office Ground Combat Systems' Stryker Brigade Combat Team, discusses recent upgrades to the Stryker family of armored vehicles (including the development of the Stryker Infantry Carrier Vehicle Dragoon), design challenges and more during an interview with Defense & Aerospace Report Editor Vago Muradian"

 

 

This video is useful not only for its overview of Stryker Dragoon and J-CROWS, but also for its look at the procurement programs that drove these new systems into service.  The video also has some useful info on the laser-armed Stryker currently being tested.



#7 2805662

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 1650 PM

Interesting comments about Bradley power availability and how the A4 program addresses current shortcomings.

#8 R011

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 1913 PM

An article from Army.mil? Of course everything is roses to them. But they're still easy open tin cans like pop top soup with a cannon too small for real work but big enough to temp crews to stupid mistakes.

Ask the crews in a few years what they think of their toy vehicles, DF, if they the lucky ones.

 

What would you suggest as an alternative?  JTLV?  Namer?



#9 Al

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 1432 PM

One could always go to www.narccisistfucktardflyingwheeltrapofdeath.com  :ninja:



#10 Dark_Falcon

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 1750 PM

 

Actually, Stryker Dragoon is better found on  BecauseRussia.mil. :D



#11 shep854

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 1839 PM

You know, it's been a while since we beat on Sparky...



#12 TonyE

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 2055 PM

He (i can only assume it is him) has a very active facebook page for the 1st Tactical Studies Group - Airborne btw. :D



#13 shep854

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 2113 PM

He (i can only assume it is him) has a very active facebook page for the 1st Tactical Studies Group - Airborne btw. :D

The one and only--thankfully

#14 Gavin-Phillips

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 1137 AM

How does this 30mm cannon compare with others that are already on the market, like the 2A72 etc?

 

Always surprises me just how large those 30mm rounds really are.  :o No wonder why ZU-23's bolted to a truck bed or APC are an effective anti-infantry weapon...



#15 GARGEAN

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 1146 AM

How does this 30mm cannon compare with others that are already on the market, like the 2A72 etc?

 

Always surprises me just how large those 30mm rounds really are.  :o No wonder why ZU-23's bolted to a truck bed or APC are an effective anti-infantry weapon...

Better pen that 2A72, somewhat comparable HE, better acc, twice lower RoF.



#16 DB

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 1554 PM

But how does it compare to what other people are putting on their vehicles in a similar role? And is the gradual upgunning actually meaningful against the expected range of targets?



#17 GARGEAN

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 1607 PM

But how does it compare to what other people are putting on their vehicles in a similar role? And is the gradual upgunning actually meaningful against the expected range of targets?

Khm... Can't put out of my mind other 30mm autocannons in moment. There are couple of 35mm, comparison result with them is expected. About meaningfulness - definitely. It will be deadly for most APC/IFV out there from great ranges, will be able to provide good anti-personnel work at MUCH greater ranges that 50.cal, especially with airburst... Win-win. At worst it will rise cost, visual profile and mass of vehicle, but that's not that big deal.
P.S.: Oh, remembered one. RARDEN. I don't think that precise comparison with that WWII relic is needed.


Edited by GARGEAN, 23 August 2017 - 1609 PM.


#18 Colin

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 1739 PM

Rarden was postwar and designed to fit into small vehicles, you should see just how small it is, didn't even realize i was looking at the breech!



#19 2805662

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 1941 PM

Rarden was postwar and designed to fit into small vehicles, you should see just how small it is, didn't even realize i was looking at the breech!


Always wondered why Rarden (RARDEN?) was never used as a basis for an externally/electrically powered, dual-feed, system.

#20 GARGEAN

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 0112 AM

Rarden was postwar and designed to fit into small vehicles, you should see just how small it is, didn't even realize i was looking at the breech!

Yeap, designed postwar, but doesn't change the fact that it closer to WWII designs that to cold war ones, not even talking about modern ones.




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