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British Aorg Report On Tank Effectiveness In Wwii


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#61 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 0445 AM

 

From what I read in Neillands 'The Bomber War' (well worth getting if you havent got it yet)

 

Ah, yes, Neillands...yes, his "Bomber War" and "Normandy" used to be on my shelves. Used to be. Good reasons for that tense. :D

 

Cheers!

 

 

Oh dear, what changed your mind?

 

If there is anything better on WW2 Strategic bombing, Id be happy to receive pointers.



#62 Rich

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 1046 AM

 


Oh dear, what changed your mind?

If there is anything better on WW2 Strategic bombing, Id be happy to receive pointers.

 

 

It's been a while, but as I recall I read the Normandy book and enjoyed its style, but then started digging into my files comparing things and kept running into disconnects. Then when I started the Bomber book it quickly began to read like a hagiography of Harris. He simply reminds me too much of John Mosier...a plausible sounding narrative, debunking supposed "myths", which gets thin as one starts to question the sources.

 

Meanwhile, I can't think of a single-volume history of the CBO that really works well, since the CBO can only be understood within the context of the war around it. You have to see the German side for instance, which means Eagle in Flames (and, really Phoenix Triumphant too). Davis' Bombing the Axis is a must, but dry. Middlebrook's Bomber Command War Diaries for the British side. Arthur Ferguson's "Origins of the Combined Bomber Offensive" in Craven and Cate II is essential. The original works of the USSBS and the BBSU are also valuable.


Edited by Rich, 06 September 2017 - 1058 AM.


#63 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 1105 AM

ive tried, and failed, to get the complete USBS for Europe, but all that seems to be available on line is the abbreviated version. I was interested in looking at their data and contrasting it with what Neillands said, that it was painting the British in the worst possible light, and the American's in the best possible light. It certainly seemed to be true in a US publication on various aircraft defensive system of the period. It made great play of a bizarre rocket system mounted on the B24, and said virtually nothing about RAF 50 cal rear turrets which had a radar aiming system, which could seem to be about the most advanced system in the war.

 

Sorry, dragged it off thread again. It kind of summed up what I feared, there is no one good book on the bomber offensive.


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 06 September 2017 - 1125 AM.


#64 lastdingo

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 1114 AM

I bet you mixed up one word somewhere in there...



#65 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 1126 AM

I bet you mixed up one word somewhere in there...

Yes. :P



#66 Rich

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 1139 AM

ive tried, and failed, to get the complete USBS for Europe, but all that seems to be available on line is the abbreviated version. I was interested in looking at their data and contrasting it with what Neillands said, that it was painting the British in the worst possible light, and the American's in the best possible light. It certainly seemed to be true in a US publication on various aircraft defensive system of the period. It made great play of a bizarre rocket system mounted on the B24, and said virtually nothing about RAF 50 cal rear turrets which had a radar aiming system, which could seem to be about the most advanced system in the war.

 

Sorry, dragged it off thread again. It kind of summed up what I feared, there is no one good book on the bomber offensive.

 

The "complete" USSBS is 216 volumes and a statistical appendix. What you usually find is the Summary Report, although some of the industry reports are also available. Th BBSU report is available as a single volume PDF at CARL.

 

AGLT was certainly brilliant, but somewhat limited to RAF Bomber Command requirements? Anyway that minutia seems a bit away from a quality history of the bombing campaign?



#67 JWB

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 1201 PM

 

 

a notion he pooh-poohed, claiming the narrow rail lines were too hard a target and too easily repaired.


He was absolutely right in this regard. Back then rails were not welded together but screwed, railways had lots of personell and so many lines that traffic could be re-routed rather easily. Better go after individual trains with fighter bombers.

 

 

This was Finnish experience as well. Finns and Germans bombed Murmansk railroad many times, and effect was poor, even 250kg direct hit on the tracks was usually repaired within a day. Maybe it was different if you had truly huge number of bombers available.

 

What made the transportation plan work was mixing long delay fuse bombs in with the quick fused bombs. The later would explode after the repair crews arrived. The track cuts caused by those bombs ahead of and behind the repair crew would leave them stranded and vulnerable to fighter bomber attacks the next morning.



#68 Dark_Falcon

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 1032 AM

From the Vault: Tank Effectiveness: Conqueror, Conway and Charioteer




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