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Health Quackery Roundup


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#21 Panzermann

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 1852 PM


 


 


And now, that's apparently not true... What else is going to turn out to be not true? That gluten intolerance is as real as fibromyalgia?

 
Related: I was diagnosed with a raft of allergies a couple of weeks ago (Carry an EpiPen now at all times because the doctor is a little spooked that I might be a walking case of anaphylaxis waiting to happen), and gluten popped up on the report. Very minor food allergy, but the allergist suggested that I go gluten free for a week to see if there was anything to it. No real change like the quackery claims about gluten's evils, but my persistent (Literally since I was a kid) stomach pains vanished instantly, which makes since a common allergic reaction to gluten is stomach pain.
 
Glad to hear that worked out for you.  The nutritionist at my doc's office suggested I look into trying the GAPS diet given some of the lingering symptoms that I have.  Unfortunately it's rather... involved and not practical right now for me but hopefully in a couple months.  I guess it's a little controversial still as it's budding research but I'll never forget her line when she was describing it to me.  "Just you watch, intestinal flora will be the new Kale."  :lol:
 
 
 
LOL might not be far off.  We're discovering that gut flora are involved in a lot, even in making serotonin (which SSRI antidepressants try to increase).  A colitis patient was getting a fecal transplant for gut flora.  That patient ended up being obese, just like the original donor.  Although the research regarding probiotics and increasing outcomes are equivocal at best, docs are still prescribing them for any patient that needs antibiotics.

Interesting. Research into obesity is targeting the intestinal flora as a cause for obesity at the moment. This looks like a proof. Although not intended as experiment.
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#22 Mikel2

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 1933 PM

So obesity is a cultural problem :)


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#23 Corinthian

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 1948 PM

Must admit, original convo details fuzzy, but I do remember bananas = fattening.  The calories aren't crazy, true, but four of them would make a candy bar (or smoothie) and they are loaded with simple sugars.And much of the sugars is fructose. Unlike glucose, fructose doesn't care if you're working out, watching tv, or whaterver because it goes straight to the liver to be turned into fats.  Dr. Lustig says fructose is just like alcohol, but without the buzz. \
 

 

 

Very very interesting. And here I thought that a diet on fruit is good for maintaining blood sugar and help keep weight off. I must remember this. Any solid study on this (even if in the end I'll hardly understand it due to medical terms)? Thanks.


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#24 Guest_Jason L_*

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 1950 PM

Also, fun-fact: only one group of people can benefit from fructose and that's marathon runners. Probably because no fat cell is safe at the 10 mile mark.

 

 

Uhhh....not really.

 

A glucose/fructose mix increases carbohydrate availability and preserves glycogen reserves for pretty much any extended aerobic activity. This makes it a viable choice for: cycling, triathlon, long distance swimming, long distance cross country ski, etc. Anything where you can run out of immediately available muscle go-juice.

 

Strictly speaking once you're heading into glycogen depletion, you're past the point where fructose is going to help you because of the liver pathway and you need to focus on orally available carbs which basically means glucose.

 

But fructose/glucose blends are recommended by lots of sports science people, even if the literature is fairly contradictory when you actually go poking around. Frankly, I just eat bananas, cookies and chocolate bars on longer rides. Science be damned.


Edited by Jason L, 10 August 2015 - 1951 PM.

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#25 Guest_Jason L_*

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 1956 PM

There's no denying the caloric model, there was THIS biochemist who ate nothing but junk food under 1200 calories a day.  He lost a ton of weight and his biochem health markers (LDL etc) all improved.  But  some nutrients are more lipogenic than others and need to be ducked.  Even  the cardiologist I worked with said  if you have to eat a pizza, just eat the toppings, leave the bread alone.  The sooner we get rid of high fructos corn syrup, the better.

 

One problem with dieting is that after a certain point in body fat, you end up metabolically upside down.  This means fat cells still get first dibs on nutrients and you're still hungry.  At that point you need an intervention.  I've been at 30% body fat and have been using Contrave, an appetite suppressant, to lose weight.  I think after 20-25% is when this phenomenon takes a toll, but I'm guessing.

 

Fruit juice also lacks the fiber of fruit, which would normally fill you up and turn on satiety signals.

 

The core message still needs to be eat less, exercise more. All of this handwavium about scientific detail (which is perfectly valid as research) is basically obfuscating the fundamental lifestyle problem at work here.

 

I've been obese and I've been a competitive amateur athlete and everywhere in between. The only difference was my ability to make excuses not to train.


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#26 Corinthian

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 2000 PM

Some years ago, there was a study that obesity might be caused by a virus, and that it is contagious.


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#27 Guest_Jason L_*

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 2011 PM

Some years ago, there was a study that obesity might be caused by a virus, and that it is contagious.

 

Yeah, this critter: https://en.wikipedia...rus_serotype_36

 

But it's present in only a minority of obese people.

 

Eat less. Exercise more. Everything else just makes it harder/easier.


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#28 Corinthian

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 2013 PM

In my case, eat less, eat slow, eat more balanced diet, and exercise more, would be more applicable to me I guess than doing any specific diet that advocates or avoids eating something more or less.


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#29 Guest_Jason L_*

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 2024 PM

In my case, eat less, eat slow, eat more balanced diet, and exercise more, would be more applicable to me I guess than doing any specific diet that advocates or avoids eating something more or less.

 

How about that mountain bike? ;)


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#30 DKTanker

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 2051 PM

Thanks for posting the video, it helps make it easier for the layman to understand the sugar insulin et al dynamic and especially that not all carbs are bad.  I mean damn, my doc has been trying to convince that one can only thrive on the Euell Gibbon's diet.  Meat, doc says I can eat all the meat I can catch and butcher with my bare hands.  Yes, he's a bit of a fanatic but he means well.

 

It also helped explain the inter-connection of hypertension, CVD, and type 2 diabetes, though I wished he'd spent just a bit more time there.


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#31 Corinthian

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 2255 PM

 

In my case, eat less, eat slow, eat more balanced diet, and exercise more, would be more applicable to me I guess than doing any specific diet that advocates or avoids eating something more or less.

 

How about that mountain bike? ;)

 

 

I blame World of Warships and RC tanks.... :P hehehe


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#32 Ivanhoe

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 2317 PM

words I never thought to see on TankNet:

"fecal transplant"

 

At some future I&I, if you see Stargrunt gloving up, run like the wind. He may not be planning to stop at the transverse turn.


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#33 Stargrunt6

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 2022 PM

Thanks for posting the video, it helps make it easier for the layman to understand the sugar insulin et al dynamic and especially that not all carbs are bad.  I mean damn, my doc has been trying to convince that one can only thrive on the Euell Gibbon's diet.  Meat, doc says I can eat all the meat I can catch and butcher with my bare hands.  Yes, he's a bit of a fanatic but he means well.

 

It also helped explain the inter-connection of hypertension, CVD, and type 2 diabetes, though I wished he'd spent just a bit more time there.

 

You could search forever on how all three are linked. One thing for sure, DM just wrecks everything.  From compromising the immune system to making blood clots easier to form (in your arteries, for instance),   Seeing enough patients with it has put the fear of gawd in me to go more low-carb.

 

 

 

 

words I never thought to see on TankNet:

"fecal transplant"

 

At some future I&I, if you see Stargrunt gloving up, run like the wind. He may not be planning to stop at the transverse turn.

 

 

Well, if you work so hard to get past the sigmoid colon, might as well follow through.

 

I ask patients "do you have 30 minutes to spare?" 

 

And more from Dr. Lustig.  He's starting a research consortium to finally answer calories vs type of nutrients in dieting. He's on the latter, but he's willing to be wrong.  In the end, yeah, output vs input but we are not furnaces and anything that can make that uphill climb less steeper, the better. Personally, I just think we need to look at interventions in combination with lifestyle changes.  Once you reach a certain amount of body fat, it's like trying to bring fiscal reform to Chicago versus Podunk County Arkansas.  You cut calories, you starve and have less energy.  Hunger makes you pissed and unfocused, and your back to where you started.  

 

Phen phen was praised in the medical community, but the lawsuits killed that one.  Contrave, the drug I'm taking, should be in the water. 

 

 

One HUGE issue I have is the cultural role of food. I'm really tired of how out of hand the portion control has gotten in this country.  Sometimes I wonder if it's a type of pica secondary to nutritionally-weak foods, but for every other nutrient including iron.  One thing I hate is the fag shaming that goes with any man who wants to eat a salad or similar.  We seem to forget gorillas and bulls don't eat meat.  I don't get why "real men" can clean a plate.  Show me a dude that can go all day on a handful of rice, and I'll call him one tough SOB.


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#34 Skywalkre

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 2048 PM

We should start a 'Stargrunt6's Health Vids' thread.  That '23 and 1/2 hours" one was another great one.

 

It struck a chord, too, because I know a lot of gamers personally who simply don't get any exercise at all, are obese, and spend all their time at a desk (work + gaming).  One's a good friend I've had since childhood.  Broaching the subject has always been... tricky.


Edited by Skywalkre, 11 August 2015 - 2048 PM.

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#35 Stargrunt6

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 2116 PM

We should start a 'Stargrunt6's Health Vids' thread.  That '23 and 1/2 hours" one was another great one.

 

It struck a chord, too, because I know a lot of gamers personally who simply don't get any exercise at all, are obese, and spend all their time at a desk (work + gaming).  One's a good friend I've had since childhood.  Broaching the subject has always been... tricky.

 

I'd be more than happy,, plus throw in some research articles.  

 

A friend of a friend used to be obese and worked at a mall's food court.  He just quit eating lunch and would go to the arcade and played DDR.  Got down to fighting trim.  Although I'm in the camp that believes resistance training can be cardio, I won't deny the effects of daily aerobic exercise. As soon as I get bigger digs, I'm getting a rowing machine.


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#36 Guest_Jason L_*

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 2147 PM

I just want to be under 10% BF again. Screw this whole 30something thing.


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#37 Ivanhoe

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 2358 PM

One HUGE issue I have is the cultural role of food. I'm really tired of how out of hand the portion control has gotten in this country.  Sometimes I wonder if it's a type of pica secondary to nutritionally-weak foods, but for every other nutrient including iron.


Man, I heard of pica decades ago and at the time didn't grasp how such a thing could be. Until I went low-carb for a few months, and my craving for animal fat became something that would frighten a prison psychiatrist. I went from boneless skinless chicken breast for dinner to bone-in skin-on chicken thighs, and there was no doubt I was craving the fat.

 

On occasion the last few years I have strongly craved salad. Don't know what nutrient singular or plural was involved, but I kinda assumed my innards were telling my brain to go get some X, stat.

 

Ya know, there is the theory that much of our hunger sensation is our body looking for water*, not nutrients. From a Dawkinsian perspective, makes some sense.

 

* Yes, I know folks are now disputing the "8 x 8" water thing, for very good reason. But like salt, our bodies evolved to crave that which is scarce. Maybe water on the African veldt was scarce, and our bodies learned to make us eat excess so that the small intestine could top up the electrolytic tank.


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#38 Fritz

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 0638 AM

I just want to be under 10% BF again. Screw this whole 30something thing.

 

Huh 10% is basically unhealthy, I'm at 12.5% and I'm pretty slim.


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#39 Stargrunt6

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 1830 PM

I've heard under 5 is when you're losing eyeball fat.  Pavel Bure was like 6-7%.


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#40 Skywalkre

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 2053 PM

I thought you start to run into serious issues, like organs shutting down, when you get down around 8 or so?


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