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#1 Chris Werb

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 0403 AM

It's been a long time since I've been hopelessly addicted to a computer game, but Verdun has me hooked.  Those of you into WW1 small arms (that's you Simon and Bojan), or WW1 land warfare generally, should really enjoy this. I'd tend to take "realistic" with a pinch of salt, but it's tons of shooty fun (if you manage to put your gas mask on in time, muahahahaha!).

 


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#2 Chris Werb

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 0637 AM

Verdun - a war photographer's descent into Hell

 

https://youtu.be/dKhlHM-YJQc


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#3 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 0649 AM

Chris, have you seen this? Ive been half a mind to give it a punt.

https://store.steamp.../War_of_Rights/


Edited by Stuart Galbraith, 10 March 2019 - 0650 AM.

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#4 Chris Werb

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 1050 AM

Yes, I posted a link to it over on the Tankovian Meta thread a few weeks back :)  Reloading is PAINFUL :)


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#5 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 1052 AM

Might have to get that then. A Tanknet Confederate clan might be interesting.:D


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#6 Chris Werb

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 1315 PM

Verdun is just Heaven for me :)


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#7 bojan

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 1322 PM

I am terrible at FPSs :(


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#8 Chris Werb

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 1403 PM

I am terrible at FPSs :(

 

OK, true story.... (and I'm sure you would be as brilliant at FPS as you are at guns, military history, prop making and drawing!)

 

The last FPS I played was a Tom Clancy SWAT style game back in 1995-6 - Rainbow 6?  I wasn't very good at it. I just walked around with an infinite sack of hand grenades tossing them around corners. The only other one I'd played was Duke Nuk'em 3D. That's if you exclude about a million games on WoT.

 

Anyway, I thought I'd give Verdun a go. Bear in mind that I haven't even worked out how to throw a grenade yet and I very rarely use the calling in fire support feature and seldom even remember that I can melee (which works well).  Yet, when I switched from bot defence scenarios to bot augmented live battles with c. 130 real players in them, I typically rank in the top five most effective player's list and more often than not in the top three!  All I do is apply basic infantry tactics:

1. Follow the low ground.
2. Don't get silhouetted.
3. Take up a position that if at all possible skylines the enemy and/or enfilades him (I do a lot of assaulting too - I'm not a camper per se)
4. Get down behind hard cover you can pop up from behind momentarily - vary the position in which you pop up if possible.
5. Pop up for one or two seconds max to acquire a target, then duck down - get the rifle ready and aligned on the bearing of the enemy then pop up, take one shot and pop down.
6. Rinse and repeat.

Obviously there are exceptions to that - if you have twenty enemy coming straight at you, you just keep shooting and ducking down and reloading once empty.

I think you would really love how some of the guns are portrayed in game. Really lovingly rendered and with realistic limitations. I am loving the RSC 1917, the Gewehr 88/05 and the Lee Enfield SMLE.  The guns I hate most are the early Berthiers with three round clips, the C96 with a mag you can't top up with loose rounds and the Chauchat in both French and US guises. Oh and the M1897 shotgun is the only weapon I think is badly modelled ballistically - it's really anaemic.

Go on Bojan - you know you want to! :)





 


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#9 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 0259 AM

Rainbow 6 was very good, had a very active mod community as well. They were even the first to predict mumbai style street fights with terrorists, which was strongly in advance of reality at the time.

 

Ill get Verdun if they put in a British pack with Lee Enfields. And if that makes me insufferably anglocentric, well, I guess people have a point. :)


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#10 Sardaukar

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 0603 AM

This is totally different, but you guys might enjoy it:

 

https://store.steamp...0/Door_Kickers/


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#11 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 0626 AM

Yeah, I keep meaning to get that. MP is a good reason to do it.

 

I always like those kind of games. 12 year old walt me always saw himself as the next Peter Skellan. :D


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#12 bojan

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 0740 AM

...The guns I hate most are the early Berthiers with three round clips,

Does clip insertion at least takes less time than using stripper clips? It was only positive thing Serbian soldiers noted when they were issued those (and after Mausers 1899/1910 those probably really felt bad)...

 

 

 

the C96 with a mag you can't top up with loose rounds

 

Ammo for it was issued in stripper clips, so you would have to take ammo off stripper clips, then top it of. Steyr's were sometimes topped off with a stripper clips however, so in theory you should be able to do the same with C-96.

BTW, does it model god-awful behavior of C-96 when used as pistol (nose heaviness, tendency to roll and twist in a hand when fired etc)?

 

 

 

and the Chauchat in both French and US guises.

Why?

 

 

 

Oh and the M1897 shotgun is the only weapon I think is badly modelled ballistically - it's really anaemic. 

 Well, period 00 buck was packaged in 2&1/4" shells, and is practically 9 x .32 ACP with a worse velocity retention cause it is round balls.

At longer distances (and everything over 25-35m is long distance for a shotgun) shotgun is pretty poor choice.

And there is a fact that Winchester 1897 is pretty peculiar in a way you have to rack it, and not doing it "right way" leads to a short stroking and other problems.

IMO, whole "military shotguns" was and still is such a limited niche that with a hindsight it was practically not worth pursuing.

 

 

 

Go on Bojan - you know you want to! :)

I want a lot of things, but the time allows me for only 1-2 games, and those slots are taken by WoT and (periodically) Grim Dawn...

"Once I retire" :(


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#13 Sardaukar

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 0419 AM

Yeah, I keep meaning to get that. MP is a good reason to do it.

 

I always like those kind of games. 12 year old walt me always saw himself as the next Peter Skellan. :D

 

Trust me, it's really damn boring in real life, practice, that is :D


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#14 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 0525 AM

Dont you even get a funky Roy Bud Soundtrack? :(


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#15 Stargrunt6

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 1828 PM

Rainbow 6 was very good, had a very active mod community as well. They were even the first to predict mumbai style street fights with terrorists, which was strongly in advance of reality at the time.


I just downloaded Ghost Recon from GoG which uses the same engine. It would be great if the map was a proper topo. During missions I have to do terrain recon.
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#16 Chris Werb

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 0815 AM

 

...The guns I hate most are the early Berthiers with three round clips,

Does clip insertion at least takes less time than using stripper clips? It was only positive thing Serbian soldiers noted when they were issued those (and after Mausers 1899/1910 those probably really felt bad)...

 

 

 

the C96 with a mag you can't top up with loose rounds

 

Ammo for it was issued in stripper clips, so you would have to take ammo off stripper clips, then top it of. Steyr's were sometimes topped off with a stripper clips however, so in theory you should be able to do the same with C-96.

BTW, does it model god-awful behavior of C-96 when used as pistol (nose heaviness, tendency to roll and twist in a hand when fired etc)?

 

 

 

and the Chauchat in both French and US guises.

Why?

 

 

 

Oh and the M1897 shotgun is the only weapon I think is badly modelled ballistically - it's really anaemic. 

 Well, period 00 buck was packaged in 2&1/4" shells, and is practically 9 x .32 ACP with a worse velocity retention cause it is round balls.

At longer distances (and everything over 25-35m is long distance for a shotgun) shotgun is pretty poor choice.

And there is a fact that Winchester 1897 is pretty peculiar in a way you have to rack it, and not doing it "right way" leads to a short stroking and other problems.

IMO, whole "military shotguns" was and still is such a limited niche that with a hindsight it was practically not worth pursuing.

 

 

 

Go on Bojan - you know you want to! :)

I want a lot of things, but the time allows me for only 1-2 games, and those slots are taken by WoT and (periodically) Grim Dawn...

"Once I retire" :(

 

 

1. Yes, clip insertion is faster in game, and they incorrectly model by having the user pull the stripper clip out, whereas most common bolt action rifles eject the clip when you push the bolt forward - this makes stripper clip loading even slower vs clip in the game. The problem with the en bloc clip system as modelled in the game (is this also so in reality?) is that it doesn't let you top up with single rounds - nor does the game let you eject a partially spent clip. So you can end up with a rifle with one or two round in it with an enemy wave incoming or an unknown number of enemies just about to pop around the corner of the trench. Another thing I would love to see changed, on the Lee Enfield SMLe in particular, is that, when you reload, you always load fully, even in a dire situation. I would like to see it changed so that one press of R loads either a 5 round clip or the number of rounds to bring the rifle up to 5 and pressing twice or again, loads another clip or the number of rounds necessary to fill the magazine. It also doesn't allow you to put one up the spout. Another historically technically accurate but annoying anomaly is the 6 round .30-06 mag on the M1917 - when loading from empty it always loads a clip, then a single round. I would prefer to have the option not to do that which changing to a two stage R procedure would provide.

 

2. Thank you for your info on the C96 - so the game should let you top off by partially loading a stripper clip? Even if that wasn't doctrinal, I would still like to see it implemented. I haven't used the C96, or any pistol, much, so can't comment on the firing characteristics, but my favourite are the Lugers with smail drums, for obvious reasons :)  (the game doesn't model reliability)
 

3. Just trust me, the Chauchat in game is just horrible to shoot (very true to the Project Lightening and earlier videos) - and, again, reliability isn't modelled.
 

4. Sorry, I can't remember if I said, but I have owned quite a few 12 bore shotguns and am well aware of their RL ballistics :)  The game models the buckshot round really, really anaemically - I would have to show you this in game. It's almost a less than lethal weapon at ranges beyond about ten yards. In reality shotguns were a bit of a disaster, primarily because paper cased ammo was less than ideal for military use (to put it mildly). Ian and Othias did a good video debunking WW1 use of the Trench Gun. In reality, the thing would have been a liability anyway as you point out - you are almost always going to end up in situations where you need more range and precision and are not going to want to swap back and forth with slugs and the 5 round tube mag is also a liability. In game you get an M1911 with that loadout and I end up keeping the shotgun as a backup to the pistol!

 

WW1 is full of tantalising fantasies about what might have been. I know that, if you ran time again with all the factors exactly the same, you would get the same result, but there are so many things that could have been done differently that would have been so much better - many of them were done shortly after WW1, like effectively putting an aperture sight on the SMLE. I'd like an RSC 1918 in something like 6.5 Carcano with a much smaller, pointed, flat based bullet,  taking a BAR like QD 20 round box mag (also capable of stripper clip loading from above) and having the sights off the P14/M1917 (with the option of the "Fine" version and with windage adjustment, which the sight historically did not have). A fully worked out Mk III Ross, cut down to SMLE length with a lighter barre and 10 round box (or better still a detachable 20 rounder off the BAR*) would be nice too.

 

*The BAR mag wasn't anything to write home about, particularly in its construction, but it existed at the time.
 


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#17 Simon Tan

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 0511 AM

Is Verdun multi-idiot?


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#18 Chris Werb

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 0952 AM

Is Verdun multi-idiot?

 

It's multi player. if you think the opposition are idiots, they'll always quickly disabuse you of that notion :)  


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#19 Simon Tan

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 1050 AM

If anyone worries about Time to Kill it is for Multi Idiots. 


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#20 Chris Werb

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 1804 PM

If anyone worries about Time to Kill it is for Multi Idiots. 

 

I'm literally over 20 years out of date with gaming terminology. I just try to combine achieving squad objectives, staying alive as long as possible and killing the enemy :)  I had to google "time to kill"

 

https://www.altchar....nd-time-to-kill

 

I just looked at BF5 and it looks pretty idiotic. Whilst I don't doubt that Verdun is much more realistic than BF1 or 5, there is still silliness in there - it just doesn't spoil it too much for me.


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