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Germany's "future Infantry" System


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#1 Dawes

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 1033 AM

I don't speak German but I thought the concept is interesting. I noticed that in this video and others the soldiers are wearing the Desert pattern camo, which actually works well in certain urban and Fall backgrounds in Europe. Is Germany going to follow England's lead and phase out the Desert pattern in favor of a "one size fits all" pattern?

 


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#2 2805662

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 1053 AM

Is Germany going to follow England's lead and phase out the Desert pattern in favor of a "one size fits all" pattern?
 


England's lead? MTP was introduced by the UK in 2010...The US introduced ACU in 2004.
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#3 Simon Tan

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 1100 AM

Backpack PC and radio is much too large as is the ruggedized tablet. If it is a base station for mobile subscriber, that's OK but not for everyone. The individual comm unit should be belt order or fit into a utility pouch. The screen can be 5.5-6". The HUD needs to be much smaller and less intrusive and it should project NV and/or thermal imagery.

 

Way too clunky.


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#4 Dawes

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 1120 AM

 

Is Germany going to follow England's lead and phase out the Desert pattern in favor of a "one size fits all" pattern?
 


England's lead? MTP was introduced by the UK in 2010...The US introduced ACU in 2004.

 

As far as European countries are concerned. ACU was an expensive flop.


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#5 Dark_Falcon

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 1157 AM

 

 

Is Germany going to follow England's lead and phase out the Desert pattern in favor of a "one size fits all" pattern?
 


England's lead? MTP was introduced by the UK in 2010...The US introduced ACU in 2004.

 

As far as European countries are concerned. ACU was an expensive flop.

 

Given how poor a camo pattern it proved to be, I would consider "an expensive flop" to be the correct assessment.


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#6 2805662

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 1542 PM

Agree that ACU/UCP was an expensive flop in execution, but conceptually (one camouflage for all environments) it predates MTP by seven years. The replacement OCP continues the concept.

Edited by 2805662, 30 July 2017 - 1545 PM.

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#7 Panzermann

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 1605 PM

Agree that ACU/UCP was an expensive flop in execution, but conceptually (one camouflage for all environments) it predates MTP by seven years. The replacement OCP continues the concept.

 

The Scorpion W2 pattern goes back to the early 00s tests for future soldier/warrior from which Crye Precision developed the commercial MultiCam pattern. Which the U.S. Army did not want to pay for and thus developed from the original test pattern (they had the rights to) the currently issued pattern.

 

Well back to german all terrain camouflage pattern. there has actually one been developed, but is not currently issued and they are going to stay with the three patterns for temperate forests, arid hot with  residual vegtation and arid hot without vegetation. though the latter is rarely issued. I think the multi  terrain pattern is going to be used for pouches, rucksacks and such.


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#8 Panzermann

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 1607 PM

Backpack PC and radio is much too large as is the ruggedized tablet. If it is a base station for mobile subscriber, that's OK but not for everyone. The individual comm unit should be belt order or fit into a utility pouch. The screen can be 5.5-6". The HUD needs to be much smaller and less intrusive and it should project NV and/or thermal imagery.

 

Way too clunky.

 

Still smaller than earlier iterations of Infanterist der Zukunft. Luckily they plan it as a kind of rolling release changing components over time instead of setting it in stone and then being overtaken by electronics developments in the future.

 

The  IdZ is conceived as a comlete system from the underpants up. And not as a disjunct assortment of pieces. In reality only parts arrive at the front line, but that is reality vs. planning for you. ;)


Edited by Panzermann, 30 July 2017 - 1612 PM.

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#9 Panzermann

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 1616 PM

because I stumbled upon it:

 

 

recruitment video from the Kampfschwimmers

 

 

Just like with the IdZ video I cringe everytime they say "Mission". No. They are soldiers not bloody missionaries proselytising the heathens! :angry:

That is Auftrag in German. :angry2:


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#10 Skywalkre

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 1951 PM

I forget which part of our German contingent has pointed out on numerous occasions how hollow German military spending is so... how are the funds available for something like this with limited deployment over the coming years but funds aren't there for what are even more basic spending needs right now?


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#11 Ivanhoe

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 2014 PM

The  IdZ is conceived as a comlete system from the underpants up.


I'm crediting you with development of the Underpants-Up Design Process (UUDP).  :)

 

If you can't be famous, be notorious...


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#12 Simon Tan

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 2024 PM

Join KSK​ DEVGRU. A Sniper team with G28s should have 2 G28s, not a G28 and G36.


Edited by Simon Tan, 30 July 2017 - 2025 PM.

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#13 lastdingo

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 1720 PM

A sniper team consists of sniper and observer, at times a 3rd man for security.

There's hardly ever more than one good shot possible at one time, and snipers are more useful for stealthy observation than for shooting anyway.


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#14 2805662

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 2137 PM

Depends on the country, I guess. I'm used to seeing each of the sniper pair carrying a rifle of equal capability so that they can swap out roles without moving. They may also carry a different weapon for the infil/exfil phase (eg. carbine each), depending on the mission.
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#15 Simon Tan

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 2243 PM

With a 7.62x51mm self-loader, there really is no need to have a secondary carbine. You drive it like a battle rifle, albeit a rather heavy one. Part of the silliness is the enormous glass that is so popular with European militaries. Their damned scopes are 15 inches long and weigh a kilo. You really will never fully exploit a 50mm objective, let alone a 56mm. They are unnecessary with in line thermal/NV/hybrid imagers.They also run big 34mm tubes with inordinate amounts of drop adjustment and enormous amounts of erector (8xnow). A 42mm objective, 30mm tube with 6x erector is more than enough and keeps the weight and cost down. Having used offset RDS sights for close quarter engagements, they are effective and for me better than the piggybacks.

 

The one thing I do not like is the weight of a Harris bipod. Bipods are a necessary evil, primarily for hasty supported positions. Unfortunately, none of the current crop of bipods is as light and robust as they should be. The Harris is successful because the spring loaded legs allow it to flex mechanically.


Edited by Simon Tan, 01 August 2017 - 0022 AM.

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#16 2805662

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 0654 AM

Makes sense with 7.62 NATO. The guys I've worked with in the past were using .338 LM bolt guns, so a carbine was mandatory.
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#17 Panzermann

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 0556 AM

With a 7.62x51mm self-loader, there really is no need to have a secondary carbine. You drive it like a battle rifle, albeit a rather heavy one. Part of the silliness is the enormous glass that is so popular with European militaries. Their damned scopes are 15 inches long and weigh a kilo. You really will never fully exploit a 50mm objective, let alone a 56mm. They are unnecessary with in line thermal/NV/hybrid imagers.They also run big 34mm tubes with inordinate amounts of drop adjustment and enormous amounts of erector (8xnow). A 42mm objective, 30mm tube with 6x erector is more than enough and keeps the weight and cost down. Having used offset RDS sights for close quarter engagements, they are effective and for me better than the piggybacks.

 

The one thing I do not like is the weight of a Harris bipod. Bipods are a necessary evil, primarily for hasty supported positions. Unfortunately, none of the current crop of bipods is as light and robust as they should be. The Harris is successful because the spring loaded legs allow it to flex mechanically.

 

while i agree mostly, the high magnification scopes are mostly there for surveillance and the big objective lenses are better at dusk and dawn than using night vision devices (thermal or light amplification) imho. Though that leads to very heavy scopes and may be a fashion trend that goes to far.


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