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NVA Special Units


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#1 Guest_gos51_*

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 0328 AM

I am looking for any information in regards to a NVA unit which I believe was similar to Skorzeny' Panzerbrigade 150. I think it operated M-60s and was designed to be like a West German unit should WWIII have ever occured. It's size I am not sure of, though like its WWII equivalent I don't think it was much beyond brigade size if that. Any information would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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#2 BansheeOne

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 0403 AM

I've never heard of this. The only East German military units I know of that could be described as special operations forces were Luftsturm-(Air assault)-Regiment 40 "Willi Sänger", which was the GDR's only parachute unit (and really just a battalion), and the six divisional long range recon battalions. They would in part have operated behind enemy lines, but didn't have any armor AFAIK.
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#3 A2Keltainen

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 0427 AM

In southern Germany there is a special diversionary battalion equipped with M113s and M48s which were obtained from Vietnam. These armoured vehicles are painted in West German markings, and the unit's troops are equipped and dressed like a regular West German mechanised unit. They would be used in time of war for unconventional operations to penetrate NATO lines and may be subordinate to MfS instead of the Ministry of Defence.


Soviet Bloc Elite Forces
Steven J. Zaloga and James Loop
Osprey Publishing
1998

Trivia: Some of the bad guys in Die Hard: With a Vengeance served in a unit like this previous to their gold stealing career.

Edit:

Edit:

The other East German units mentioned in the book are:

40. Fallschirmjäger Bataillon ("Willi Sanger"): Light airborne commando unit intended for rear are raiding activities.

29. Regiment ("Ernst Moritz Arndt"): Motorized rifle unit intended for amphibious operations in the Baltic.

Volksmarine Kampfschwimmer: Combat swimmer units intended for support of amphibious operations and for raiding.

Grenztruppen der DDR: Ministry of Defence controlled frontier troops/border guards.

Felix Dzerzhinsky Wach Regiment der Mfs: Ministry of State Security controlled guard unit intented for internal security activities, protection of key governmental facilities, and possibly also commando operations.

Edit 2:

Marinekameradschaft Kampfschwimmer Ost e.V. (Association of former members of the East German combat swimmers.)

http://www.kampfschwimmer-vm.de/

A picture in their magazine shows what I assume is a typical East German combat swimmer ready for some hot action against the imperialist militarist capitalist oppressors:

Posted Image

:D

Fallschirmjäger - Traditionsverband Ost e.V. (Association of former members of the East German paras and other similar units.)

http://www.fallschirmjaeger-nva.de/

Edited by A2Keltainen, 28 May 2007 - 0509 AM.

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#4 Michal

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 0820 AM

I am looking for any information in regards to a NVA unit which I believe was similar to Skorzeny' Panzerbrigade 150. I think it operated M-60s and was designed to be like a West German unit should WWIII have ever occured. It's size I am not sure of, though like its WWII equivalent I don't think it was much beyond brigade size if that. Any information would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.



NVA had only two special units, there were on army level:
- Spezialaufklärungskompanie 3, SAK-3 (after mobilization: Spezialaufklärungsbataillon 3) - Rudolstadt
- Spezialaufklärungskompanie 5, SAK-5 (after mobilization: Spezialaufklärungsbataillon 5) - Glöwen/Goldberg

Unfortunately I don't know their TO&E.
But I'm sure their role was the same as spetsnaz companies of soviet army and special companies of polish army.
I don't think they were prepared to act as Bundewehr soldiers...

It was also Fallschirmjägerkompanie 40, FJK-40 - Strausberg, but it had rather security role of NVA HQ at Strausberg.

Greetings from Warsaw! :)
Michal
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#5 wwt

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 0858 AM

NVA had only two special units, there were on army level:
- Spezialaufklärungskompanie 3, SAK-3 (after mobilization: Spezialaufklärungsbataillon 3) - Rudolstadt
- Spezialaufklärungskompanie 5, SAK-5 (after mobilization: Spezialaufklärungsbataillon 5) - Glöwen/Goldberg

Unfortunately I don't know their TO&E.
But I'm sure their role was the same as spetsnaz companies of soviet army and special companies of polish army.
I don't think they were prepared to act as Bundewehr soldiers...

It was also Fallschirmjägerkompanie 40, FJK-40 - Strausberg, but it had rather security role of NVA HQ at Strausberg.

Greetings from Warsaw! :)
Michal


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#6 wwt

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 0901 AM

WARFARE BEHIND ENEMY LINES by Otto Heilbrunn has a short bit about E German unit copied after the Brandenburg units.
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#7 Michal

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 0923 AM

NVA had only two special units, there were on army level:
- Spezialaufklärungskompanie 3, SAK-3 (after mobilization: Spezialaufklärungsbataillon 3) - Rudolstadt
- Spezialaufklärungskompanie 5, SAK-5 (after mobilization: Spezialaufklärungsbataillon 5) - Glöwen/Goldberg

Unfortunately I don't know their TO&E.
But I'm sure their role was the same as spetsnaz companies of soviet army and special companies of polish army.
I don't think they were prepared to act as Bundewehr soldiers...

It was also Fallschirmjägerkompanie 40, FJK-40 - Strausberg, but it had rather security role of NVA HQ at Strausberg.

Greetings from Warsaw! :)
Michal


P.S.
At the beginning of 1990's at polish Drawsko military range (nowadays the biggest NATO range in Europe!) I saw several copies of NATO tanks (Chieftain, Leo1, M48 and others)
Most of them were made by polish soldiers on soviet tanks carriages, but some of them (perhaps M48?) were original!
Our officer said they were transported from Vietnam.
They all served as "teaching aids" for recon troops.

I suppose that similar "tanks" seen in East Germany were the source of the myth of such a NVA deception unit...
Michal

P.S.2 In aviation museum in Krakow I saw F-5 and A-37 also transported from Vietnam...
Hence I'am sure that in soviet and NVA depots/storages must have been a lot of such a stuff!
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#8 Michal

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 1035 AM

Michal, were these wooden mockups or mild steel?



I didn't touch them :) I watched them from remote, but I think they were so realistic that they must be made of steel.
They were painted in the NATO scheme and looked really impressive!

It was long ago but I remember I could easily distinguish each type.
My officer was surprised of that because I was very young these days...
I recall I had problems only with Chieftain, it looked a bit "notchieftainly" :)
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#9 BansheeOne

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 1114 AM

It was also Fallschirmjägerkompanie 40, FJK-40 - Strausberg, but it had rather security role of NVA HQ at Strausberg.


You're probably referring to 4. FJK of Luftsturmregiment 40, which was established in 1980 for guard duty at the accomodations of the defense minister and his deputies at Strausberg. Both the ministry and the minister's dwellings had been secured by Wachregiment "Hugo Eberlein" before, but it seems the minister wanted his own personal elite guard. However, despite having four platoons to the other parachute companies' three, 4. FKJ proved not to have sufficient manpower for continuous guard duty, so from 1983 all four companies of the regiment rotated through this mission for two weeks at a time.
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#10 wwt

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 1243 PM

Opps. Sorry. It is WARFARE IN THE ENEMY'S REAR, Otto Heilbrunn, Praeger "63. This guy ain't no Tom Clancy, but he does his homework and puts together a scholarly work.
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#11 11E

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 1411 PM

Yes, I can imagine it was not a particularly easy shape to replicate. :) Thats very interesting, Id not heard that before, I assume these were created primarily for tank recognition rather than as actual hard targets? Wonder if they are still there....



Hello Stuart,
In 2002 I visited the training area for three weeks and found 7 x T-34, 44 T-55 and 2 x Su-100. And a lot of SKOT verhicles (don't know the exact type). All were in Polish colours and with Polish tactical numbers and serialnumbers. Also some tanks with white hands painted on it and the name '' rudy'', but that has something to do with a Polish movie about a tank and a boy/dog..

I was close enough to note the contstructionnumbers on the glacis of these . I found no sheet metal in the vicinity of these tanks indicating that they were modified to resemble some NATO tank. Some of these target were here for years and years

Regards
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#12 Marek Tucan

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 1432 PM

I'd say it's a bit of military folclore, here the fav target are the borderline forts, being rumored to have xxxx underground floors and underground connection with everything in a 100 km diameter and whatnot ;)
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#13 Hellfish6

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 1537 PM

I've heard about this unit too - they used vehicles captured by the other NVA (Vietnamese) and were painted and equipped like a German reserve unit in M113s and M48s.
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#14 A2Keltainen

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 1645 PM

Over here it is/was the 'strategic reserve', a giant collection of redundant Steam locomotives that were held in underground facilities, that would be taken out of mothballs after a nuclear strike to move food supplies and fuel stocks around the country. Complete balls, but amusing in restrospect to think of discarded and unloved Class 9Fs overhauling discarded and fuelless Class 47s diesels that were designed to replace them. :)


Are you sure there weren't some steam locomotives held in reserve for such an emergency in UK? At least here in Sweden there was something called "beredskapslokparken" ("readiness locomotive fleet") that contained substantial numbers (at least over 100 IIRC) of steam locomotives held in storage spread over the country during times of peace, and intended to be used during times of war. The phasing out of these steam locomotives began during the late 1960s and mainly took place during the early 1970s. The decision to dispose of the whole beredskapslokparken was taken in 1990 IIRC.

Here is a picture of one of the beredskapslokparken steam locomotives taken during a test drive (had to make sure the still worked if the big war came...) in the 1960s:

Posted Image
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#15 A2Keltainen

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 1150 AM

Incidentally, there is a great hoax on the net somewhere of a diesel electric imported from the United states in the 1960s for trials. It was covertly run for a while always at night painted in jet black paint so that the rail unions wouldnt get wind of a tory plan to shut the various rail works. Possibly one of the most wonderfully absurd hoaxes ive read, they even included a mocked up photo of the engine.


I've read about that one. When one loves sites such as Subterranea Britannica, one will sooner or later stumble upon all the more common military related Cold War "weird things" in UK. :D
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#16 gnocci

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 1208 PM

...train buffs...

That explains it.
I know a couple of those in my country, and i can only imagine what that does mean in uk :lol:
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#17 gnocci

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Posted 31 May 2007 - 1149 AM

On the other hand, I think we Tank buffs are much worse. Try watching a whole squad of them manoeuvre around Bovington Tank museum, its like watching lemmings.

None of those down here, thank god :lol:
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#18 A2Keltainen

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 1429 PM

These documents should be of interest to those interested in East German special units:

Partisanen des Kalten Krieges: die Untergrundtruppe der Nationalen Volksarmee 1957 bis 1962 und ihre Übernahme durch die Staatssicherheit
Stephan Fingerle, Jens Gieseke

http://www.bstu.bund....html__nnn=true

Einsatzkommandos an der unsichtbaren Front: Terror- und Sabotagevorbereitungen des MfS gegen die Bundesrepublik Deutschland
Thomas Auerbach

http://www.bstu.bund....html__nnn=true

Both these can be ordered from:

http://www.bstu.bund.de
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#19 chico20854

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 1311 PM

BTT to prevent pruning!
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#20 Captain Hurricane

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 1413 PM

There is some breakdown of the Spezialaufklärungskompanie/Spezialaufklärungsbataillon structure here:

http://www.spezialau...main_forum.html

CH
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