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Nk - Pcs And Artiilery


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#1 Companion

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 0457 AM

Starting a new thread just not to derail the NK Tank thread into something other than tanks proper.

Tank part: http://www.tank-net....31325&p=1025053

 

Maybe I should post arty part in WOTT forum?

 

Ok so here's long awaited second part of NK war museum report. (I know you didn't. Just say you did, lol)

Original article in Korean: http://www.jajuminbo...15&section=sc38

 

Again, words of caution for readers and translators:

The SK reporter here is by no means an military analyst. To add to the problem, he also is a quite notorious pro-NK writer. So this means he is often parroting what he heard from museum guides word for word and describes them in most favorable light possible for NK.

 

Here, I'll forgo translating all that crap and just list interesting bits of info from the article. I also discarded bits where the author quoted sources other than NK museum.

 

-------------------

 

 

The list concerns only those shown in the museum. Thus, if something is not listed here, that does not necessarily mean it's not in the actual army inventory.

 

 

PCs

 

 

1. BTR clone, APC mod. 1969 "69". Formerly known as "66" (though I don't think I heard that name either) The article implies that NK uses simple number without letter prefixes for PC model names.

2 crews, 8 dismounts

 

2. APC mod. 1973 "323". Formerly known as VTT-323. Current mainstay of NK mech inf. 2 crews, 12 dismounts, turret with twin 12.7mm MG and quadruple MANPADS tubes. 

Range of the MANPADS: 5km for target moving away, 8km for target moving in

Maneuver training picture posted in the article does not show any MANPADS installed.

 

3. APC mod. Juche 98 (mod. 2009) "Junma-Le" Pronounce "Le" as you would speak French. 9 dismounts, turret with two 14.5mm MG and "computerized FCS," six 81mm smoke grenades, NBC protection.

 

 

 

Artilleries

 

SPG:

 

103mm SPG mod. 1972 (what 103mm? typo?)
152mm SPG mod. 1972
170mm SPG mod. 1973 "Juchepo" (literally "Juche-cannon") formerly known as M1978 Koksan. Was exported to Iran during Iran-Iraq war. First shown to public in 1985 parade.
100mm SPG mod. 1974. 7 crews, gun range 27km
130mm SPG mod. 1974
122mm SPG mod. 1976
122mm SPG mod. 1978
170mm SPG mod. 1983 "Juchepo" both 170mm guns are called the same. 9 crews, gun range 40km, 60km with RAP. Mysterious "War stock of special ammunition" was mentioned.

 

 

SP-Mortar:

 

82mm mod. 1976

120mm mod. 1978

140mm mod. 1981

 

 

Towed-AAA:

 

six-barrel 30mm mod. 1991. 5 crews, range 4km

 

 

Rocket Artillery:

 

200mm 4 tubes mod. 1968
122mm 30 tubes mod. 1973
122mm 40 tubes mod. 1973
240mm 12 tubes mod. 1984
240mm 18 tubes mod. 1984
122mm 40 tubes mod. 1990
240mm 22 tubes mod. 1990

 

Unspecified 122mm rockets have range 20.7km. Unspecified 240mm rockets have 50.3km. Extended range rockets available for both calibers.

240mm precision munition for point targets produced since 1984

 

The reporter specifically mentioned that he couldn't find any 107mm rocket system in the museum. (fishy?)

 

Not in the museum but additionally mentioned are:

 

New 122mm 8 tubes, shown in 2013 April 15th parade

New 240mm 40 tubes.

122mm 18 tubes, in service with paramilitary reserve corps.

New 300mm 12 tubes, no picture or other info available.

122mm 22 tubes. 5 pieces of this system are mentioned in the article as responsible for "Bombardment of Yeonpyeong" incedent. http://en.wikipedia....t_of_Yeonpyeong

 

 

SP-recoilless gun

 

370mm 3 tubes mod, 1984, mounted on 10-wheel PC, 5 crews, range intentionally undisclosed.

 

 

 

Pictures from the article:

 

2013070751076807.jpg

 

APC "69"

 

 

2013070752252909.jpg

 

APC "323"

 

 

2013070753117629.jpg

 

APC "Junma-Le"

 

 

2013070759488309.jpg

 

170mm Juchepo. 2013 March 12th, Kim Jong-un visiting 641st Corps.

 

 

2013070704066915.jpg

 

100mm mod. 1974

 

 

2013070705353735.jpg

 

170mm Juchepo mod. 1983. 2013 April 15th parade.

 

 

201307070936558.jpg

 

122mm 30 tubes mod. 1973. 2013 April 15th parade

 

 

2013070710321080.jpg

 

122mm 40 tubes mod. 1990, with 40 reserve ammo and loading mechanism on 8 wheeled mount. 2013 April 15th parade.

 

 

2013070711269664.jpg

 

New 122mm 12 tubes. 2013 April 15th parade

 

 

2013070712534262.jpg

 

122mm 24 tubes mod.1973. 2008 Sep. 9th paramilitary corps parade. Note two MANPADS

 

 

Attached File  NK 122mm 18 tubes.jpg   114.32KB   1 downloads

 

122mm 18 tubes towed by collective farm tractor. 2011 Sep. 9th paramilitary corps parade

 

 

Attached File  NK 240mm 22 tubes.jpg   139.31KB   0 downloads

 

240mm 22 tubes mod.1990. 2012 April 15th parade

 

 

Attached File  NK 240mm 40 tubes.jpg   89.6KB   1 downloads

 

New 240mm 40 tubes. 2013 March 13th live fire training

(I'm thinking this picture might be that of 122mm 40 tubes...)

 

 

PS: How do I correct the ugly typo in the title?


Edited by Companion, 14 July 2013 - 1915 PM.


#2 Max H

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 0802 AM

Thanks for the translation! Shame about the koksan, I'll miss the dirty jokes :(



#3 geronimo

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 1330 PM

2013070751076807.jpg

 

APC "69"

 

Awesome, thanks! Only that Type (19)69 designator for the 8x8 APC sounds fishy since the type was only introduced around 2010. And the Soviet BTR-80 where it's based on exists only since 1982.



#4 geronimo

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 1423 PM

attachicon.gifNK 240mm 40 tubes.jpg

 

New 240mm 40 tubes. 2013 March 13th live fire training

(I'm thinking this picture might be that of 122mm 40 tubes...)

 

That's indeed a 122mm MRL so that should be the mod. 1990 then?



#5 geronimo

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 1430 PM

2013070712534262.jpg

 

122mm 24 tubes mod.1973. 2008 Sep. 9th paramilitary corps parade. Note two MANPADS

 

Looks to me like a variant of the Chinese Type 63 of 107mm, only with 4 rows of 6 tubes instead of 3 rows of 4.



#6 Companion

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 1854 PM

 

2013070712534262.jpg

 

122mm 24 tubes mod.1973. 2008 Sep. 9th paramilitary corps parade. Note two MANPADS

 

Looks to me like a variant of the Chinese Type 63 of 107mm, only with 4 rows of 6 tubes instead of 3 rows of 4.

 

 

 

The picture descriptions are all as appears on the original article.

 

I think the reporter is trying to match what he saw in the museum with pictures he could safely post because picture taking was prohibited within the museum proper. (this applies to tanks posting as well)

 

But - I'll add this to the original post - he did wrote that he expected to see 107mm rockets in the museum but couldn't find any.



#7 Companion

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 1900 PM

 

2013070751076807.jpg

 

APC "69"

 

Awesome, thanks! Only that Type (19)69 designator for the 8x8 APC sounds fishy since the type was only introduced around 2010. And the Soviet BTR-80 where it's based on exists only since 1982.

 

 

 

Damn, missed this bit too - reporter wrote that this PC was formerly known to the West as "66." Any idea on that?



#8 Sikkiyn

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 0006 AM

Cool pictures.

 

Why a manpad on almost every vehicle?



#9 geronimo

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 0101 AM

103mm SPG mod. 1972 (what 103mm? typo?)

 

I suppose that must be 130mm.

 

New 300mm 12 tubes, no picture or other info available.

 

That appears to be the 9A52 "Smerch" (BM-30).



#10 Companion

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 0331 AM

 

 

New 300mm 12 tubes, no picture or other info available.

 

That appears to be the 9A52 "Smerch" (BM-30).

 

 

 

The picture in the original article is indeed Smerch and the reporter doesn't claim otherwise. It was included in the article just to give the readers feeling of how powerful NK version of 300mm system will be, hence why I didn't include the picture in the original post. (remember, the reporter is extremely pro-NK in his tone sometimes to a degree of propaganda)

 

To quote the reporter, the rumored 300mm NK-produced system was nowhere to be found in the museum, and it seems the tour guide didn't give any information/propaganda about it either.

Its existence might well be just a rumor.



#11 geronimo

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 0409 AM



Damn, missed this bit too - reporter wrote that this PC was formerly known to the West as "66." Any idea on that?

 

I never heard a "Western" (DOD) designator "66" or "M-1966".

 

Maybe "APC 69" was a typo as well and it must be "APC 96" (APC mod. 1996). That would make more sense even though it would mean that this 8x8 APC was in service 14 years before it was seen for the first time.

 

6guu.jpg

 

Edit: I forgot to mention that the picture from the article does not show the NK vehicle (as above) but the Russian-made BTR-80A!


Edited by geronimo, 15 July 2013 - 0410 AM.


#12 Companion

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 0557 AM

 



Damn, missed this bit too - reporter wrote that this PC was formerly known to the West as "66." Any idea on that?

 

I never heard a "Western" (DOD) designator "66" or "M-1966".

 

Maybe "APC 69" was a typo as well and it must be "APC 96" (APC mod. 1996). That would make more sense even though it would mean that this 8x8 APC was in service 14 years before it was seen for the first time.

 

6guu.jpg

 

Edit: I forgot to mention that the picture from the article does not show the NK vehicle (as above) but the Russian-made BTR-80A!

 

 

 

You're correct, it definitely looks like BTR-80A

 

...Now I want to pluck out his hopeless brain and somehow dissect his pictorial memories myself.

 

He specifically mentioned in the article that this APC model, whatever it is, is a year 1969 design and that this PC is on exhibition at the museum. Then, suddenly he quotes "US military specialists" for its performance rather than using whatever was written on the museum info panel (maybe there wasn't any)

And the quote is summed up as "max speed land: 90km/h, water: 10km/h, range: 600km, armament: 14.5mm and 7.62mm attached to a turret."

Now, if it was in the museum and he personally saw the vehicle, he cannot possibly make such an obvious mistake as mis-identifying twin 14.5mm for standard 14.5mm+7.62mm.  

Furthermore, in an attempt to present NK models in favorable light, he boasted one of the advantages of APC 323 as having one more 12.7mm than most APCs of other countries, which normally have just one HMG on pintle mount. Considering that, he couldn't have missed the opportunity to brag about APC 69 if it really had twin 14.5mm.

 

Or the memory was simply overshadowed by more impressive artillery inventories.

 

Oh and the Juchepo (Koksan) was, according to him, not revealed to public until 12 years after introduction, so I wouldn't be surprised if similar happened to other weapon systems.



#13 geronimo

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 0807 AM

He specifically mentioned in the article that this APC model, whatever it is, is a year 1969 design and that this PC is on exhibition at the museum. Then, suddenly he quotes "US military specialists" for its performance rather than using whatever was written on the museum info panel (maybe there wasn't any)

And the quote is summed up as "max speed land: 90km/h, water: 10km/h, range: 600km, armament: 14.5mm and 7.62mm attached to a turret."

 

My best guess would be the BTR-60PB then. I know NK has the type in service but pictures are quite rare.



#14 Marcello

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 0918 AM

1. BTR clone, APC mod. 1969 "69". Formerly known as "66"

 

 

The closest match would indeed be the BTR-60, but this would be the first time they claimed local production AFAIK. 

 

2. APC mod. 1973 "323". Formerly known as VTT-323. Current mainstay of NK mech inf. 2 crews, 12 dismounts, turret with twin 12.7mm MG and quadruple MANPADS tubes.

 

 

All sources list twin 14.5mm (and judging from the pictures a 7.62mm coax cannot be ruled out) or single 14.5mm + 7.62mm. First time that a twin 12.7mm is claimed.

Lacking a good close up high res shot is hard to tell for sure.

 

APC mod. Juche 98 (mod. 2009) "Junma-Le" Pronounce "Le" as you would speak French. 9 dismounts, turret with two 14.5mm MG and "computerized FCS,"

 

 

A computerized FC for a twin 14.5mm? When most of their T-62s are still without it ?
 

 

SP-Mortar:

 

82mm mod. 1976

120mm mod. 1978

140mm mod. 1981

 

 

?

 

 

Really, their artillery inventory must be an headache to sort out. They have at least four chassis carrying several types of guns each.



#15 geronimo

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 1002 AM

All sources list twin 14.5mm (and judging from the pictures a 7.62mm coax cannot be ruled out)

 

The 7.62mm coax is mounted above the 14.5mm MGs if I'm not mistaken.



#16 geronimo

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 1040 AM

Oh and the Juchepo (Koksan) was, according to him, not revealed to public until 12 years after introduction, so I wouldn't be surprised if similar happened to other weapon systems.

 

Apparently it did happen: the Juchepo mod. 1983 is the most modern system accoring to that list whereas the US DOD has allocated artillery systems with M-1991, M-1992 etc. codes.

 

Below some grab screens from a video from 1992:

 

s9nz.jpg

eruk.jpg

7i0e.jpg

ceml.jpg


Edited by geronimo, 15 July 2013 - 1042 AM.


#17 geronimo

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 0712 AM

2013070711269664.jpg

 

New 122mm 12 tubes. 2013 April 15th parade

 

I found two designators for this one and another new MRL: Sonyon-ho and Nyomaeng-ho but I don't know which one is which :( 

 

Multiple-launch rocket systems “Sonyon-ho" and “Nyomaeng-ho" manufactured with the assistance of school youth and children and members of the Democratic Women’s Union of Korea (DWUK) across the country were presented to units of the Korean People’s Army (KPA) with due ceremony at Hamhung Square in South Hamgyong Province on Thursday to mark the 80th anniversary of the KPA.

 

http://theatlantic.t...en-for-building


Edited by geronimo, 16 July 2013 - 0715 AM.


#18 Companion

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 1320 PM

 

2013070711269664.jpg

 

New 122mm 12 tubes. 2013 April 15th parade

 

I found two designators for this one and another new MRL: Sonyon-ho and Nyomaeng-ho but I don't know which one is which :( 

 

Multiple-launch rocket systems “Sonyon-ho" and “Nyomaeng-ho" manufactured with the assistance of school youth and children and members of the Democratic Women’s Union of Korea (DWUK) across the country were presented to units of the Korean People’s Army (KPA) with due ceremony at Hamhung Square in South Hamgyong Province on Thursday to mark the 80th anniversary of the KPA.

 

http://theatlantic.t...en-for-building

 

 

 

The two names are propaganda names, not model numbers.

The rocket systems are (supposedly) product of scrap metal collection campaign. The pieces "delivered" by women's union is called "Nyomaeng-ho" while those from youth group is called "Sonyon-ho"

 

Damn, this romanized Korean is so chaotic that it's hard to decipher what original Korean word is...

Attached Files



#19 geronimo

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 1330 PM

Wonderfull: besides the factory, military and DOD designators we now have the propaganda designators. :wacko:  The article talks about two systems whereas only the one on the "323" chassis is shown. What are the chances that the 2nd one is the trailer-mounted MRL with 2x9 launch tubes?



#20 Companion

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 1456 PM

Wonderfull: besides the factory, military and DOD designators we now have the propaganda designators. :wacko:  The article talks about two systems whereas only the one on the "323" chassis is shown. What are the chances that the 2nd one is the trailer-mounted MRL with 2x9 launch tubes?

 

 

If you are talking about Nyomaengho and Sonyonho, AFAIK there are no pictures of Sonyonho. It could be anything really but it is likely that they are essentially same model because both are product of same scrap metal collection campaingn.

 

To make an analogy, it's as if someone donates money to produce certain number of Abrams tanks and the resulting tanks are called after the name of benefactor. i.e. John Doe-ho (It's more of a requisition than donation in NK case though)

 

IIRC there was another "Nyomaeng-ho" batch back in 2005, but those were tanks. Reason behind the name was same: the tanks were supposedly made from scrap metal collected by women's union.


Edited by Companion, 18 July 2013 - 1458 PM.





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