Jump to content


Photo

Kiev Is Burning


  • Please log in to reply
18572 replies to this topic

#9501 urbanoid

urbanoid

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 5,299 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lodz, Poland

Posted 10 February 2015 - 1313 PM

Nice example of how one photo tell littke about whole thing. Video of Sukhumi

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=SAYp-ST9VHw

   Also worth mentioning Batumi is rich port city while Sukhumi was small resort place even in Soviet time.

 

Pouring billions of dollars on Chechmya is better then pouring bombs, i think. There is no Sharia law there by the way, despite they (and other traditional Muslim places) are far more conservative then central Russia.

 

I could easily choose photos that would make my own city look beautiful, it wouldn't be too close to reality though. (Although it's getting better, sure.)

 

Even in the video you posted, the areas close to the sea look like shit, in a place with otherwise enormous potential to attract tourists.

 

Conclusion: Russians played active role in Abkhazia's separation from Georgia (including ethnic cleansing of the largest ethnic group - Georgians, which were IIRC majority in the capital) and then left it to rot, not even recovering it to pre-war prosperity.

 

Btw. just google 'sharia law in chechnya', there's a shitload of examples by how Ramzi implements elements of it.


  • 0

#9502 urbanoid

urbanoid

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 5,299 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lodz, Poland

Posted 10 February 2015 - 1319 PM

The only tourists ready to go there are Russian one because of their childhood years nostalgia (I was in Sukhumi twice in early 1980th, and even in this years of all Soviet care and investments into internal tourism it was not developed, with cows rambling the beach) or some other reasons. Unfortunately this corner of Black Sea is nothing special if compared with Mediterranean, Egypt and other places with infrastructure already in place and running – so only people limited by some reasons in their travel (car travelers, classified information holders, afraid of air travel, backpackers) go there. May be RUR devaluation would help to divert travelers to Russian resorts, I hope.  

For foreigners it is just too cold there, sea tourist season is limited (it is right next to Sochi, place of Winter Olympic games, after all) .

 

Somehow Georgia doesn't have such problems and tourism is worth some $50 billions + there, the climate must be like totally different.


  • 0

#9503 Roman Alymov

Roman Alymov

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,161 posts
  • Location:Moscow, Russia
  • Interests:Tank recovery

Posted 10 February 2015 - 1319 PM

 

Strong enough to defeat Lithuania and Ukraine? Give me a break. Strength is not the issue here, another point proving that some nations moved on, and Russians still have wet dreams about restoring the empire.

 

PS. Lvov was mainly a Polish-Jewish city at the time, as were many (most?) other towns in today's Western Ukraine, but first Mr. Stalin and then Mr. Hitler and then Mr. Stalin again (with Ukrainians themselves in the meantime) made sure it was no longer the case. Sure, the current borders were forced, but we do not feel like contributing to another war in Europe, that's Russia's thing to do.

 

About “restoring  the empire” again  - see above, already answered.

Poland withhold Lvov at about the same time as Vilnus was lost after WWI, with following efforts to make this area “more Polish” (resulting in growth of local violent Ukrainian nationalism as side effect) so there is hardly any reasons to portray all this mess as peaceful and civilized divorce only broken by Stalin and Hitler.  And in present days there are hardly more reasons to Poles to pretend on Vilnus or Lvov then for Russians to pretend on Alaska. In fact now nobody wants Western Ukraine, including even locals who do their best to leave to West or to Russia to earn money….


  • 0

#9504 urbanoid

urbanoid

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 5,299 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lodz, Poland

Posted 10 February 2015 - 1326 PM

About “restoring  the empire” again  - see above, already answered.

Poland withhold Lvov at about the same time as Vilnus was lost after WWI, with following efforts to make this area “more Polish” (resulting in growth of local violent Ukrainian nationalism as side effect) so there is hardly any reasons to portray all this mess as peaceful and civilized divorce only broken by Stalin and Hitler.  And in present days there are hardly more reasons to Poles to pretend on Vilnus or Lvov then for Russians to pretend on Alaska. In fact now nobody wants Western Ukraine, including even locals who do their best to leave to West or to Russia to earn money….

 

Local Ukrainians were not resettled, historically they were majority in the countryside, Poles and Jews were mostly locals living there for centuries (also, mostly in the cities). Do I claim that we treated the Ukrainians fairly? No way, but it wasn't anything comparable to their treatment further East.

 

Poles are still a local majority in the areas surrounding Vilnius (even after deportations and mass murders by the Soviets, Germans and Lithuanians) and in some regions of Belarus near the border. Still, not a basis to make some silly reconquista.

 

Your thinking IS imperial and you're not even aware of it (or try to pretend otherwise).


  • 0

#9505 Roman Alymov

Roman Alymov

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,161 posts
  • Location:Moscow, Russia
  • Interests:Tank recovery

Posted 10 February 2015 - 1331 PM

 

 

Somehow Georgia doesn't have such problems and tourism is worth some $50 billions + there, the climate must be like totally different.

 

Your figure seems strange since in this article Georgian tourism revenue of 1.7 bln USD in 2013 is portrayed as very good result (compare with about 10 bln USD foreign tourists spend in Russia, much less comfortable place). Whole volume of Russian tourism is about 50 bln USD AFAR.

http://www.apsny.ge/.../1403402337.php


  • 0

#9506 urbanoid

urbanoid

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 5,299 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lodz, Poland

Posted 10 February 2015 - 1334 PM

Of course, I was thinking about sth else and wrote 50.


  • 0

#9507 Roman Alymov

Roman Alymov

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,161 posts
  • Location:Moscow, Russia
  • Interests:Tank recovery

Posted 10 February 2015 - 1335 PM

Kramatorsk airfield after being hit

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=9_XlnGKYNYQ


  • 0

#9508 BansheeOne

BansheeOne

    Bullshit filter overload, venting into civility charger

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 13,848 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin

Posted 10 February 2015 - 1338 PM

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but Russia seized a chunk of Ukraine and orchestrated a rebellion in another part of the country, the sanctions are to be lifted with:

 

1. Russia keeping what it stole.

2. Accepting the frozen conflict in part of Ukraine, which only became possible due to Russian involvement.

 

Germoney, yuo of genious! ^_^

 

On a serious note, it will mean that Putin won, and we lost.

 

Well, the operative word about "mutually accepted resolution" is "mutually"; if that is reached, of course the sanctions would be lifted, because that is what they were enacted for to achieve. Though some were in response to the Crimea annexation, and others to the Eastern Ukrainian crisis; if the latter was somehow resolved (and again, I think that is a very big if), the latter would still stay in force. And I don't think anybody believes Russia is going to give up Crimea, not least because there appears to be actual genuine popular support there for being part of Russia. So as far as I can see, this part of the sanctions will stay indefinitely.


Edited by BansheeOne, 10 February 2015 - 1400 PM.

  • 0

#9509 Roman Alymov

Roman Alymov

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,161 posts
  • Location:Moscow, Russia
  • Interests:Tank recovery

Posted 10 February 2015 - 1358 PM

Photos from Kramatorsk airfield  -seems like HQ was hit, at least radio antennas are there. Click to scroll

http://www.ukrinform...eportag_2020115


  • 0

#9510 Roman Alymov

Roman Alymov

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,161 posts
  • Location:Moscow, Russia
  • Interests:Tank recovery

Posted 10 February 2015 - 1416 PM

Pro-Russians near Logvinovo. Note two girls in infantry. Destroyed T-72 and MTLB are pro-Russian, one crew member lost

https://www.youtube....h?v=0uXznnG9Ou0


Edited by Roman Alymov, 10 February 2015 - 1423 PM.

  • 0

#9511 bd1

bd1

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,079 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:estonia

Posted 10 February 2015 - 1429 PM

Roman, lot of people think that from this war the ukrainian nation will be born and Putin is the mid-wife. 


  • 0

#9512 bd1

bd1

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,079 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:estonia

Posted 10 February 2015 - 1431 PM

Well, as I pointed out in the beginning, my example is artificial and full of deviations from real situation, so pointing out at this deviations make me more educated in British history (Thank you!) but is not changing the idea. It is not “restoring borders” or “Empire” (pro-Russians themselves are not sure where they want Western border to be – almost nobody wants Western Ukraine included, for example, some do not want Central Ukraine too despite it is mainly Russian-speaking). Regarding “where the money is going to come from”   - according to some estimations, up to 200 bln USD where pumped by Russia into Ukraine over independence years in different forms, probably far more then West could afford. Do not forget Ukraine is the place where almost any Russian got family member(s) living in, after all. Russians were ok with Ukrainian independence before Government there decided to rely fully on nationalism (this card was played by all previous Ukr Gov, but in more moderate way).  Now it is hardly any way back – conflict may be frozen for some time, but it is question of time to burn again.

but that applies to Brighton Beach too....


  • 0

#9513 bd1

bd1

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,079 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:estonia

Posted 10 February 2015 - 1432 PM

as for the slow reverse speed of T-72, are there any upgrades that increase it? how much do the czech T-72m4 do with their western running gear?


  • 0

#9514 Roman Alymov

Roman Alymov

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,161 posts
  • Location:Moscow, Russia
  • Interests:Tank recovery

Posted 10 February 2015 - 1434 PM

 

but that applies to Brighton Beach too....

 

 

Not at all (well, may be for Russian Jews it is true)


  • 0

#9515 Roman Alymov

Roman Alymov

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,161 posts
  • Location:Moscow, Russia
  • Interests:Tank recovery

Posted 10 February 2015 - 1439 PM

Roman, lot of people think that from this war the ukrainian nation will be born and Putin is the mid-wife. 

I completely agree with it after adding one word - "ukrainian facebook nation will be born". This idea is very common in Ukrainian inet, but when it comes to mobilization - people just flee. Official number of Ukrainian male citizens aged 18-60 in Russia now (~1 200 000) is almost equal to all population of Estonia.


Edited by Roman Alymov, 10 February 2015 - 1441 PM.

  • 0

#9516 bd1

bd1

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,079 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:estonia

Posted 10 February 2015 - 1448 PM

 

Roman, lot of people think that from this war the ukrainian nation will be born and Putin is the mid-wife. 

I completely agree with it after adding one word - "ukrainian facebook nation will be born". This idea is very common in Ukrainian inet, but when it comes to mobilization - people just flee. Official number of Ukrainian male citizens aged 18-60 in Russia now (~1 200 000) is almost equal to all population of Estonia.

 

well, it might not look much now, but come back in century or so (and don´t come sooner....)


  • 0

#9517 glenn239

glenn239

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 4,893 posts

Posted 10 February 2015 - 1609 PM

Roman - Pro-Russians near Logvinovo. Note two girls in infantry. Destroyed T-72 and MTLB are pro-Russian, one crew member lost

 

 

With reference to the claim that Russian might be running out of tanks, any idea how many tanks the rebels have lost so far in the war?  I see online that including units in storage that might need to be refurbished, Russia currently has about 21,000 tanks. 


  • 0

#9518 urbanoid

urbanoid

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 5,299 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lodz, Poland

Posted 10 February 2015 - 1611 PM

With reference to the claim that Russian might be running out of tanks, any idea how many tanks the rebels have lost so far in the war?  I see online that including units in storage that might need to be refurbished, Russia currently has about 21,000 tanks. 

 

You do realize that enemy personnel dies in those destroyed tanks, don't you?


  • 0

#9519 Roman Alymov

Roman Alymov

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,161 posts
  • Location:Moscow, Russia
  • Interests:Tank recovery

Posted 10 February 2015 - 1631 PM

 


With reference to the claim that Russian might be running out of tanks, any idea how many tanks the rebels have lost so far in the war?  I see online that including units in storage that might need to be refurbished, Russia currently has about 21,000 tanks. 

 

According to http://lostarmour.info/armour/, total number of tanks lost by both sides is 129, only 33 of them pro-Rus or unidentified. Do not know how it is possible to "run out of tanks" with it.


  • 0

#9520 Roman Alymov

Roman Alymov

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,161 posts
  • Location:Moscow, Russia
  • Interests:Tank recovery

Posted 10 February 2015 - 1631 PM

Pro-Rus recruts basic training


Edited by Roman Alymov, 10 February 2015 - 1632 PM.

  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users