Jump to content


Photo

Kiev Is Burning


  • Please log in to reply
18384 replies to this topic

#17761 Mighty_Zuk

Mighty_Zuk

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 263 posts

Posted 16 August 2018 - 1311 PM


 
 
In the context of ATGMs, I am fairly sure. 

AGM-114L says hello. Or it would hop to "only that kind of ATGMs and not other kind of ATGMs" now?

 

"We" refers to people who have read my comment and have shown agreement with my sentiment by not providing any counter-claims, like you. 

That is such glaring mind fallacy that it would be rude to elaborate. I think that whole forum agree with Stuart when he said about soviet 100mm tank cannons being panicked response to M103 and Conqueror by not counter-claiming him, right?

You see, several people here have claimed that 4th and 5th generation missiles are just a marketing gimmick, and aren't a reality.

 
I responded by explaining that they indicate added guidance methods, such as FO&U, and networking.
You. That's the point here. Tech generations usually not determined by forum users, and even when they are proposed by widely respected sources they are often vague. Or, if we will go with forum users,we will end with such things: F-22 have only single radar array in X-band based on GaAs tech, while T-50 have five to eight radar arrays in both X-band and L-band based on GaN tech. F-22 have no dedicated active ECM suite and relies only on main radar array for very limited ECM, while T-50 have dedicated ECM suite which utilizes both radar arrays and its own arrays, plus full coverage by DIRCM system. F-22 relies solely on main radar for search and track and have no passive SaT capability, while T-50 have dedicated IRST station plus wide array of IR and UV sensors for 360 degree passive coverage for search and track. Based on all that, glorified Me states that T-50 is six gen when compared to widely accepted fifth gen of F-22. Your thoughts?

The Hellfire AGM something with an L suffix, uses radar guidance. This gives the operators the ability to observe the missile's target throughout the entire course of the flight in NLOS circumstances.

Via the helicopter's radar, the crew are telling the missile what the target is, or whether they should engage a different target.

As I said, you can do F&F with a missile that does LOAL, but you can't do LOAL with a missile that does ONLY F&F.
And the Hellfire is not only F&F.
  • 0

#17762 Dark_Falcon

Dark_Falcon

    The Stryker's Friend

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,211 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicagoland

Posted 16 August 2018 - 1522 PM

More 12.7mm rifles are headed to Ukraine, this time from Canada.

 

 

 

Ukraine military to get Canadian-made .50 calibre sniper rifles

 

screen-shot-2018-08-13-at-8-44-22-am.png

 

PGW Defence Technologies of Winnipeg will be delivering its LRT-3 .50 calibre sniper rifle to Ukraine’s military.

In an interview with Ukrainian media outlet, UATV, Ross Spagrud, the owner of Winnipeg-based PGW Defence Technologies, confirmed that the firm is providing Ukraine with the LRT-3, .50 BMG bolt action rifle. He said the deal is worth around $1 million.

The rifles will be equipped with suppressors.

Global Affairs Canada has declined to provide any details, stating it must protect the commercial interests of the firm involved.

But the office of Conservative defence critic James Bezan noted that Global Affairs Canada approved the sale last week.

 

 

In February 2016, PGW was in the news when it emerged that its LRT-3 .50 calibre rifles, sold to Saudi Arabia, had ended up in the hands of Houthi rebels. The guns were taken by rebels after a battle with Saudi forces.

[break]

In his interview with Ukrainian TV, Spagrud said there was little a company could do to prevent its weapons from falling in the wrong hands during a such a situation like an ongoing conflict. But he claimed that such rifles were “almost worthless” unless those using them had a year’s worth of training on the weapon.

 

In December 2017, the House of Commons defence committee recommended the Canadian government provide lethal weapons to Ukraine provided it demonstrates it is actively working to eliminate corruption at all levels of government. Senior officials from Ukraine’s ministry of defence had told members of the House of Commons defence committee last year they would welcome arms from Canada, including anti-tank weapons. They also told the committee that the Ukrainian military’s sniper equipment is obsolete and needs to be replaced. “In part to alter the situation in eastern Ukraine in a significant manner, the country would be interested in acquiring Canadian sniper equipment — rifles, telescopes and related items — and receiving sniper training from Canadians,” said the committee’s December report.

 

This sounds more like a politically-motivated sale than one prompted by actual military requirements.


  • 0

#17763 DB

DB

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 10,957 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hertfordshire, England

Posted 17 August 2018 - 0452 AM

Not sure why the atgm element got so sniffy, but I guess that's simply the internet for you.

The reference on my part to marketing puff is more about the general use of "generations" as shorthand to differentiate between products. It's easier to use than any attempt to describe in detail the differentiating capabilities.

I think zuk has explained the capabilities well. Asdigning them to "generations" is more problematic because different manufacturers will have different definitions.

On a different note LOAL has at least two approaches. The first is that a weapon is cued to a target location by a sensor external to the missile. It then looks for the target within that location and locks on. The external cuing can be "networked", or it can be on board the launcher.

The second is the somewhat speculative launch, where the target is acquired using the missile's own sensors after launch - e.g. an operator uses an optical sensor to pick a target.

There is a third mode - throw the misdile vaguely in the durection of the enemy and hope it locks on itself. Most RoEs would dislike that mode.
  • 0

#17764 KV7

KV7

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,638 posts

Posted 17 August 2018 - 0650 AM

Not sure why the atgm element got so sniffy, but I guess that's simply the internet for you.

The reference on my part to marketing puff is more about the general use of "generations" as shorthand to differentiate between products. It's easier to use than any attempt to describe in detail the differentiating capabilities.

I think zuk has explained the capabilities well. Asdigning them to "generations" is more problematic because different manufacturers will have different definitions.

On a different note LOAL has at least two approaches. The first is that a weapon is cued to a target location by a sensor external to the missile. It then looks for the target within that location and locks on. The external cuing can be "networked", or it can be on board the launcher.

The second is the somewhat speculative launch, where the target is acquired using the missile's own sensors after launch - e.g. an operator uses an optical sensor to pick a target.

There is a third mode - throw the misdile vaguely in the durection of the enemy and hope it locks on itself. Most RoEs would dislike that mode.

The latter was used for various 'smart' artillery munitions - SADARM etc. though.


Edited by KV7, 17 August 2018 - 0654 AM.

  • 0

#17765 Roman Alymov

Roman Alymov

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,793 posts
  • Location:Moscow, Russia
  • Interests:Tank recovery

Posted 18 August 2018 - 1535 PM

Ukrainian BUK again - this time, by lucky coincidence, nobody was killed when launch vehicle smashed into office building

de66b92ef60f345fcc5140603eb36dce.jpg?153


  • 0

#17766 Mighty_Zuk

Mighty_Zuk

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 263 posts

Posted 18 August 2018 - 1820 PM

It's almost as if these guys WANT civilian casualties on their side to happen. Whomst the heck drives around a military vehicle inside a city?
  • 0

#17767 Stuart Galbraith

Stuart Galbraith

    Just Another Salisbury Tourist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 50,588 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eloiland

Posted 19 August 2018 - 0259 AM

_46002520_1995_tank_getty.jpg

 

 

Ill give you three guesses. :D


  • 0

#17768 Chris Werb

Chris Werb

    In Zod We Trust

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,396 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orkney, Scotland, UK
  • Interests:But it's got electrolytes! They're what plants crave!

Posted 19 August 2018 - 0647 AM

There are lots of nutters out there.

https://en.wikipedia...iki/T-14_Armata
  • 0

#17769 GARGEAN

GARGEAN

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,964 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 August 2018 - 0723 AM

There are lots of nutters out there.

https://en.wikipedia...iki/T-14_Armata

You mean whole Victory Parade thing?


  • 0

#17770 Roman Alymov

Roman Alymov

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,793 posts
  • Location:Moscow, Russia
  • Interests:Tank recovery

Posted 20 August 2018 - 0327 AM

Parade-related incidents are relatively common, dating back to Soviet time when people were better educated and organized than now, for example in 1960  ZSU-57 driver, speeding after parade rehearsals, lost control and smashed through barrier on river bank
864420.jpg
one could easily find lots of videos of this type, as they are happening in public places.
This video is only interesting as it demonstrate Ukrainian army (soviet heritage) BUKs still in use.

 
Another video - pro-Ukrainian drone dropping improvised bombs on pro-Russian trenches in Novoazovsk region (south flank of the frontline). Note old WW2 still well visible round. Nothing is new.


  • 0

#17771 Dark_Falcon

Dark_Falcon

    The Stryker's Friend

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,211 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicagoland

Posted 20 August 2018 - 1838 PM

One slight bit of good news for Ukraine:

 

 

 

 

Thailand receives final Oplot-M tanks

Thailand’s final batch of six Oplot-M tanks and two recovery vehicles arrived on 29 July, marking completion of the 49 MBTs, two recovery vehicles, four support vehicles and a simulator ordered from the Kharkiv Morozov Machine Building Design Bureau (KMDB) in Ukraine in 2011.    

 
 

  • 0

#17772 Roman Alymov

Roman Alymov

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,793 posts
  • Location:Moscow, Russia
  • Interests:Tank recovery

Posted 21 August 2018 - 0335 AM

New troubles
https://www.washingt...an-jet-engines/

China's Ukrainian jet engines

 
By the way taking into account the main plant producing jet engines blades in Soviet Ukraine is in Snejnoye, Donetsk Republic - i wonder how they are cooperating....


  • 0

#17773 Roman Alymov

Roman Alymov

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,793 posts
  • Location:Moscow, Russia
  • Interests:Tank recovery

Posted 21 August 2018 - 1353 PM

Trtenches becoming tunnels when war is over 4 years

 

P,S. Soldiers shown are actually not DNR Army, but Ministry of transportation special forces/


Edited by Roman Alymov, 21 August 2018 - 1355 PM.

  • 0

#17774 Roman Alymov

Roman Alymov

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,793 posts
  • Location:Moscow, Russia
  • Interests:Tank recovery

Posted 21 August 2018 - 1354 PM

DNR own short-range MLRS production

 

and warhead test


  • 0

#17775 Chris Werb

Chris Werb

    In Zod We Trust

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,396 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orkney, Scotland, UK
  • Interests:But it's got electrolytes! They're what plants crave!

Posted 21 August 2018 - 1544 PM

 

There are lots of nutters out there.

https://en.wikipedia...iki/T-14_Armata

You mean whole Victory Parade thing?

 

 

The bit of it on tracks :)  Clearly it is not mad to take tracked military vehicles into built up areas.


  • 0

#17776 Dark_Falcon

Dark_Falcon

    The Stryker's Friend

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,211 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicagoland

Posted 21 August 2018 - 1812 PM

A "Quaker Javelin"

 

DlJ-ZmPXsAEb_WY.jpg


  • 0

#17777 KV7

KV7

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,638 posts

Posted 21 August 2018 - 2228 PM

Trtenches becoming tunnels when war is over 4 years

 

P,S. Soldiers shown are actually not DNR Army, but Ministry of transportation special forces/

It is bizarre to have such a long stretch of trench with no firing positions.


  • 0

#17778 Roman Alymov

Roman Alymov

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,793 posts
  • Location:Moscow, Russia
  • Interests:Tank recovery

Posted 22 August 2018 - 0410 AM

 

 

It is bizarre to have such a long stretch of trench with no firing positions.

 

It is approach trench leading to rear area, perfectly fit this type of war when tiny groups of fighters (4-10 people) are working in shifts on this positions, scattered miles away from each other, mainly to observe, repel small groups of enemy and raise alarm in case of major enemy offensive. They need trenches to change shifts, bring in water, food and firewood (in winter), but they do not need massive fortifications for battalions or regiments, WWI style.
   Practical example of this type of war are actions of this pro-Ukrainian diversion group who attempted to infiltrate pro-Rus positions last winter but failed
Video from pro-Ukr side

video of results from pro-Rus side

Note the group was carrying three AT landmines, like the one that killed OSCE observer, US citizen, last year
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOWSKnzXmRI
1493108741_b0f56d087859e95fe51b88f2a726a
Two more landmines were found planted on the road next to one that killed USian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBBtMrvyMnQ


  • 0

#17779 KV7

KV7

    Crew

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,638 posts

Posted 22 August 2018 - 0428 AM

I still think it would be nice to have some depth in the defensive line, and observation/firing posts on the approach, otherwise you run the risk of rushing to reinforce a position which has already been overrun, or as you suggest, are left vulnerable to infiltration efforts. And generally having more firing positions leaves the attacker with more positions to scan. 


  • 0

#17780 Daan

Daan

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,965 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Where both sea and skies are grey.

Posted 22 August 2018 - 0609 AM

Roman, what happened at the end of the first video? Did the Ukrainian militiaman step on a landmine / IED in the trench? Or was his position hit by a small grenade?


Edited by Daan, 22 August 2018 - 0609 AM.

  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users