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China's Peaceful Rise

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#2161 Roman Alymov

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 1429 PM

One wonders why a catapult-less carrier needs cat officers...

"They are also responsible for signaling to the pilot that he or she may take off." - this is also needed on catapult-less carrier. Plus i think they are setting standard for new, catapult-equiped carriers.


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#2162 RETAC21

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 1336 PM

The second part more than the first one, it's not like they need to look out for traffic launching just 2 aircraft nearly simultaneously.


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#2163 Josh

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 1514 PM

Besides training and directing aircraft, the 'catapult' officers probably direct the hold down clamps on the aircraft. Their release is more or less like a catapult shot in terms of procedure and function, if not mechanics.
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#2164 Josh

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 1517 PM

The second part more than the first one, it's not like they need to look out for traffic launching just 2 aircraft nearly simultaneously.


The two a/c would still run into each other if they tried to take off at the same time. Plus it's just good practice to have the deck crew signal a launch rather than let a pilot just hit his burners anytime he feels like it.
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#2165 Roman Alymov

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 1706 PM


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#2166 Roman Alymov

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 0359 AM

DapTuugUQAEELz0.jpg


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#2167 JasonJ

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 2039 PM

Carrier Liaoning's first training beyond 1st island chain, into the western Pacific on April 20th and 21st.

Spoiler

liaoningWP01.jpg

Five more images in spoiler

Spoiler

http://www.mod.gov.c...ent_4810022.htm

 

 

 

Japanese report on spotting the Chinese carrier group.

At around 10:30AM on April 20th, JS Sawagiri of the 13th escort flotilla and a P-3C of Fleet Air Wing 5 confirmed the 7 seven ship group that included Liaoning, one Type 52D destroyer, three Type 52Cs destroyers, and two Type 54A frigates in the water areas about 350km south of Yonagumi island. Later at around 11AM in the same waters, what are thought to be several fighter aircraft were confirmed to have been flying.

liaoningwpo1.jpg

 

liaoningwpo2.jpg

 

liaoningwpo3.jpg

http://www.mod.go.jp...20180420_03.pdf


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#2168 RETAC21

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 0226 AM

I don't know the quality of the training but Liaoning is certainly getting a workout, if they are using to train the crew of the second unit, the PLA Navy is going to double its projection capability in a year or so.


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#2169 JasonJ

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 0326 AM

They certainly haven't been taking it slowly.

 

Chinese media on the 7 ship group in the western Pacific.


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#2170 JasonJ

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 0334 AM

More images from it.

liaoninggp03.jpg

 

liaoninggp5.jpg

Seven more in the spoiler

Spoiler

https://www.weibo.co...nd1524385986700


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#2171 JasonJ

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 0403 AM

Another Japanese report on the same group of 7 PLAN ships. At about 7:00AM on April 21st, JS Sawagiri of the 13th escort flotilla, JS Hamagiri of the 15th escort flotilla, and a P-3C of Fleet Air Wing 5 confirmed those ships in the water area 120km east of Miyako island and were sailing towards the East China Sea. http://www.mod.go.jp...20180421_01.pdf

 

So here is a screenshot of google map and using the 100km scale provided at the bottom, I added the red to estimate the location of the PLAN fleet on the mornings of April 20th (350km south of Yonaguni) and April 21st (120km east of Miyako) according to the two Japanese reports.

maplocation.jpg


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#2172 JasonJ

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 0425 AM

PLA Air Force has been taking similar routes these days as well on the note of "maintain national integrity and sovereignty by 'cruising around the island'". Obviously the island is Taiwan.

Spoiler

aircruise01.jpg

Two more in the spoiler

Spoiler

http://www.mod.gov.c...ent_4809865.htm

 

 

 

There are Japanese reports on these flights too.

 

April 18th: two H-6s

april18.jpg

http://www.mod.go.jp...20180418_02.pdf

 

April 19th: two H-6s, a Y-8, a TU-154, and two supposed fighters (images in the Chinese article have fighters in the pictures so..)

april19.jpg

http://www.mod.go.jp...20180419_01.pdf

 

April 20th: two H-6s

april20.jpg

http://www.mod.go.jp...20180420_02.pdf


Edited by JasonJ, 22 April 2018 - 0657 AM.

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#2173 JasonJ

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 0508 AM

An article talking about a propaganda video released by the PLA Air Force that is about the flights "around the island" [cough]Taiwan[cough] for the sake of protecting the "homeland's territory".

Spoiler

sentimental.jpg

http://www.mod.gov.c...ent_4810058.htm

 

 

Expecting it to be another macho stronk! type of video like this other one focusing on the H-6:

 

...but it takes the tender sentimental approach.

 

 

Taiwanese don't want to be a part of China. Taiwan was never part of the old long history of China. It was only part of the Qing dynasty for about 200 years, just passing from one foreign owner to another, the first being Europeans, not the Chinese. So China making this propaganda about including Taiwan as part of its territory is just expansionism. It's like how some other country trying to get territory because it was once part of their territory in the past.

Nearly 70 percent of Taiwanese are willing to go to war if China were to attempt to annex Taiwan by force, a survey released by the Taiwan Foundation for Democracy yesterday said.

The foundation considers it a fitting time to pose the question as the Chinese military has over the past few years been increasing activity near Taiwan, foundation president Hsu Szu-chien (徐斯儉) told a news conference in Taipei.

A total of 67.7 percent of respondents said they were willing to go to war to defend Taiwan if China launched an armed assault on the nation to force unification.

The number of people willing to fight to prevent unification with China rose to 70.3 percent among respondents aged 20 to 39, the survey showed.

However, the number of respondents willing to go to war with China as a result of Taiwan declaring independence dropped to 55 percent, the survey showed.

A large majority of respondents — 91.1 percent — said they support maintaining the “status quo,” with 34 percent saying that they wanted the “status quo” to be maintained and would decide whether to support independence or unification based on future developments, it showed.

Respondents that supported “perpetually” maintaining the “status quo” accounted for 27.8 percent, while those who support maintaining the “status quo” before moving toward independence and those who support maintaining the “status quo” before moving toward unification were about equal at 15 percent and 14.3 percent respectively.

Only 2.4 percent of people said Taiwan should immediately declare independence, while even fewer people — 1.5 percent — said that Taiwan should immediately unify with China.

The survey also gauged satisfaction with the nation’s democratic system, which found that 58.2 percent of respondents were dissatisfied with Taiwanese democracy.

The majority of respondents — 54.4 percent — felt “pessimistic” about the future of politics under the nation’s democratic system, while 36.4 percent said they felt optimistic.

However, 94 percent of people said that living in a democratic society is “important,” of which 65.8 percent said it is “very important.”

In addition, 76.4 percent of people agreed with the statement: “Democracy, despite its flaws, is still the best system,” the poll showed.

The commonly held opinion that a majority of young people are “congenitally in favor of Taiwanese independence” could be better put as “congenitally against unification” with China or “born democratic,” as the majority are in favor of maintaining the “status quo,” Hsu said.

“If we factor in questions about whether young people support democracy, we discover that the more people support democracy, the more willing they are to defend Taiwan in the event of an invasion by China,” Hsu said. “I think it is our democratic lifestyle and values that people want to protect.”

Academia Sinica research fellow Wu Nai-teh (吳乃德) also revealed the results of a similar survey conducted by the academy over the past three years, which found that the percentage of people willing to defend Taiwan in the event of a Chinese military invasion has dropped from 75.9 percent in 2016 to 69.1 percent last year and further to 67.1 percent this year.

The Taiwan Foundation for Democracy survey, conducted from Jan. 12 to Jan. 19, collected 1,597 valid samples from Taiwanese living in Taiwan proper and Penghu, and has a confidence level of 95 percent and a margin of error of 3 percentage points.

http://www.taipeitim...4/20/2003691661


Edited by JasonJ, 22 April 2018 - 0517 AM.

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#2174 Roman Alymov

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 0849 AM

Nice to see old good Tu-16 (first flown in 1953 when Stalin was still alive) still flying – I’m afraid no single one left in Russia in airworthy condition. Now, with modified Tu-160 entering production in Kazan, China got nice chances to upgrade directly from Tu-16 to Tu-160.

 

 

 

Taiwanese don't want to be a part of China. Taiwan was never part of the old long history of China. It was only part of the Qing dynasty for about 200 years, just passing from one foreign owner to another, the first being Europeans, not the Chinese. So China making this propaganda about including Taiwan as part of its territory is just expansionism. It's like how some other country trying to get territory because it was once part of their territory in the past.

Taiwanese  Crimeans don't want to be a part of China Ukraine.  Taiwan Crimea was never part of the old long very short  history of China Ukraine. It was only part of the Qing dynasty Soviet Socialist Republic Ukraine  for about 200 60 years, just passing from one foreign  owner to another, the first being Europeans Ancient Greeks, not the Chinese Ukraine. So China Ukraine making this propaganda about including Taiwan  Crimea as part of its territory is just expansionism.


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#2175 JasonJ

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 0934 AM

Taiwan has a better economy than the Ukraine and they have a healthy democracy. The Ukraine would do good to follow the advice of the Japanese ambassador. By doing so would help make themselves more worth maintaining independent sovereignty and satisfying more of its population. Fortunately for Taiwan, they are surrounded by water have strong friendly navies. Unfortunately for the Ukraine, it borders Russia that sends little green when they don't like the economic direction the country was taking and annex some of its territory away.

YOU'RE READING: Japanese Ambassador Shigeki Sumi: Ukraine cannot just sit and relax and wait for business to come
Business Japanese Ambassador Shigeki Sumi: Ukraine cannot just sit and relax and wait for business to come Back to Home
World in Ukraine: Japan World in Ukraine: Japan
Japanese Ambassador Shigeki Sumi: Ukraine cannot just sit and relax and wait for business to come
By Brian Bonner. Published Feb. 6. Updated Feb. 6 at 9:43 pm

Japanese Ambassador to Ukraine Shigeki Sumi speaks with the Kyiv Post during a 2017 interview in his office at the Japanese Embassy.
Photo by Kostyantyn Chernichkin
In his most recent interview with the Kyiv Post, Japanese Ambassador to Ukraine Shigeki Sumi remained troubled by the lack of confidence in Ukraines law enforcement system and Ukraines passivity in attracting investment from Japan.

To be honest, people, those who are in business, do not have confidence in the law enforcement system in Ukraine the way it should be, Sumi, who arrived on Oct. 22, 2014, told the Kyiv Post on Oct. 27. The newspaper was not able to schedule up a follow-up interview to get his assessment of what, if anything, had changed in his outlook in the last 100 days.

He described arbitrary, unjustified actions by government against businesses.

Imagine a company doing the same business for the last 20 years and nobody raises any question but suddenly someone, sometimes from the SBU [Security Service of Ukraine], sometimes from the prosecutors office, raises questions that what youre doing is illegal, Sumi said, citing an example of the type of obstacles faced.

They come to your office for documents and say you are violating a law for many reasons. If this company has been doing same business in the last 20 years, its a bit strange. More specifically, they say the products they are selling are not in category a, but they should be in category b. So that means you have to pay more tax. Its illegal. You are guilty of tax evasion,' Sumi said.

Such situations are exasperating for businesses.

Cmon, my company has been selling this product as a category a for the last 20 years. Why do you make a fuss about it this time? the ambassador continued. That happens not to just Japanese companies. It happens to many companies. That means theres no transparency, no explanation.

Fortunately, in many cases, Sumi said, Japanese companies finally win the case in the court. But imagine how much energy, money, cost.

Eradication of corruption

His conclusion: A very fair and transparent law enforcement and judicial system are very needed to establish in Ukraine.

He took hope that the formation of the new Supreme Court will help rule of law. I think its very good to have new Supreme Court judges, the ambassador said. It wasnt easy, but the government has done it.

He also said that the process needs to be completed throughout the lower courts to choose judges based on merit rather than family connections or whatever. I hope this will continue.

Sumi cautioned against the one-size-fits-all approach to fighting corruption for every nation, saying that it was up to the Ukrainian people whether to establish an independent anti-corruption court.

Whats more important, he said, are results and justice.

What we want to see is the eradication of corruption, he said. Lets do it in the most favorable way.

Strong supporter of Ukraine

Japan is one of the largest bilateral donors to Ukraine, giving out more than $1.8 billion in loans or grants since the EuroMaidan Revolution that drove President Viktor Yanukovych from power on Feb. 22, 2014.

Most of the money a long-term, low-interest loan of $1.1 billion is going to replace the decrepit Bortnytska sewage treatment plant on the Dnipro River. The construction is expected to be completed by 2023. The current plant poses an environmental threat. Parts of the station are more than 50 years old. The Dnipro River is the main source of drinking water for Kyivans.

Two weeks ago, I and my wife went to the area, it stinks, its very polluted, Sumi said.

While ready to help, Sumi said, Japan is not happy to give assistance if reforms are not done.

Sumi said hes seen more awareness in Ukraine of the extent to which Japan has been helping since the EuroMaidan Revolution.

Everybody said thank you, but why Japan? We understand why America, the European Union do it, but not Japan, he said. Now they take it for granted that Japan is doing a lot of things for Ukraine. Japan is the only country in Asia who is doing these kinds of things.

Japan, a member of the G7 group of large industrial democracies, is alone among Asian nations in supporting economic sanctions against Russia for its war against Ukraine since 2014. The aggression has dismembered Ukraine and killed more than 10,000 people.

Its a matter of unwavering principle, the ambassador said.

Japan does not accept in any way the annexation of Crimea and for people in the east, the conflict should be settled by the Minsk agreement; until that happens, Japan will keep the sanctions on Russia, Sumi said.

No time to relax

Trade relations are beginning to warm up, but not at the pace that would make Japan and Ukraine major trading partners. Bilateral trade stood at $737 million in 2016 with Japanese investment at $130 million that year.

Since then, its beginning that Japanese companies have an interest in Ukraine. They found a lot of business opportunities, Sumi said, citing low wages and high quality of Ukrainian workers.

But Sumi cautioned that the Ukrainian people cannot just sit relax and wait for business to come. In the case of IT [information technology, for example], they should go to Japan to sell the IT business opportunity. We have a huge opportunity in Japan because we have a shortage of labor.

Moreover, he said, getting a working visa is not a problem in Japan in specialized, in-demand professions such as IT.

Visa liberalization

For Ukrainians who just want to visit Japan, we are in the process of visa liberalization, requiring fewer financial guarantees and extending the length of visas as well as granting multiple-entry visas if you have a good record of going to Japan several times.

Visa-free travel for Ukrainians is not under consideration at the moment, he said, but remains possible someday.

https://www.kyivpost...iness-come.html

Edited by JasonJ, 22 April 2018 - 0939 AM.

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#2176 Roman Alymov

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 1013 AM

Taiwan has a better economy than the Ukraine and they have a healthy democracy. 

I know little about Taiwan economy, but Crimea as part of Russia is far better off economically then Ukraine (poorest country of the region), and Russian democracy is far more healthy then political system of Ukraine.
7kk.jpg
Ukrainian version of average monthly salary map
mn1(310).jpg
To bring it back to China thread - income map for China (only industrial workers included, as far as i understand)

https://qph.fs.quora...17eb94b235eee-c


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#2177 JasonJ

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 1028 AM

Taiwan has a better economy than the Ukraine and they have a healthy democracy.

I know little about Taiwan economy, but Crimea as part of Russia is far better off economically then Ukraine (poorest country of the region), and Russian democracy is far more healthy then political system of Ukraine.7kk.jpg
Ukrainian version of average monthly salary mapmn1(310).jpg
To bring it back to China thread - income map for China (only industrial workers included, as far as i understand)
https://qph.fs.quora...17eb94b235eee-c
As I said, if the Ukraine can follow the Japanese ambassador's advice, they would do better. If Japan had the land and natural resouces found in today's Russia, they would take nominal GDP to 10 trillion USD, far better than what Russia could offer to the Ukraine, but you can continue to feel pride of having to spend 5% on defense, and for that way of life, keep feeling pride in trolling in other threads as part of patriotic effort of disinformation. You say you don't know much about the economy of Taiwan, but that didn't stop you from comparing Taiwan to Crimea. Russia stronk! Yeah, take that bashing and feel good to have it work in reinforcing the "poor Russia" so you can cycle back to feelings of patriotism and be emotionally back to be motivated in the trolling and disinformation way of life.

Edited by JasonJ, 22 April 2018 - 1029 AM.

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#2178 Roman Alymov

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 1147 AM


 
As I said, if the Ukraine can follow the Japanese ambassador's advice, they would do better. If Japan had the land and natural resouces found in today's Russia, they would take nominal GDP to 10 trillion USD, far better than what Russia could offer to the Ukraine, but you can continue to feel pride of having to spend 5% on defense, and for that way of life, keep feeling pride in trolling in other threads as part of patriotic effort of disinformation. You say you don't know much about the economy of Taiwan, but that didn't stop you from comparing Taiwan to Crimea. Russia stronk! Yeah, take that bashing and feel good to have it work in reinforcing the "poor Russia" so you can cycle back to feelings of patriotism and be emotionally back to be motivated in the trolling and disinformation way of life.

 

First, let me remind you last time Japan&Co was in de-facto control of significant parts of Russian Far East, there was no economic miracle there at all – but just tortures and executions.
b576630742ae6fcb9ca6ce17e5c.jpg
Of course, Japan was not there alone  - but with democracies that are now lecturing the world about human rights and moral high grounds
Intervenci%C3%B3nInternacionalEnVladivos
So let me take your statement about “10 trillion USD” with a big deal of skepticism (and I am afraid other nations of Asia-Pacific region are also not exactly cheering outcome of Japan control before and during WWII). Japanese ambassador giving advice to Ukraine? I am not sure Japan got record of creating prosperity in neighboring countries, not mentioning so distant ones.

 

Second, you complain about drawing analogy between Crimea and Taiwan – but arguments  you use in justifying why “Taiwan is not China” is very similar to ones of why “Crimea is not Ukraine” (with only difference in Crimea case this arguments are stronger) – and still denied by “Civilized world”; so I see your attempt to refer to “it's like how some other country trying to get territory because it was once part of their territory in the past.” as bare twist of logic.

And , third, speaking about Chinese bombers - may be now Taiwan politicians are pretending not to be part of mainland China – but few decades ago, when the same political force was ruling mainland China, they were quite happy to send Chinese bombers with Soviet crews to bomb Japanese occupation forces on Taiwan
http://worldatwar.ne.../v3n1/luks.html


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#2179 JasonJ

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 1755 PM

As I said, if the Ukraine can follow the Japanese ambassador's advice, they would do better. If Japan had the land and natural resouces found in today's Russia, they would take nominal GDP to 10 trillion USD, far better than what Russia could offer to the Ukraine, but you can continue to feel pride of having to spend 5% on defense, and for that way of life, keep feeling pride in trolling in other threads as part of patriotic effort of disinformation. You say you don't know much about the economy of Taiwan, but that didn't stop you from comparing Taiwan to Crimea. Russia stronk! Yeah, take that bashing and feel good to have it work in reinforcing the "poor Russia" so you can cycle back to feelings of patriotism and be emotionally back to be motivated in the trolling and disinformation way of life.
First, let me remind you last time Japan&Co was in de-facto control of significant parts of Russian Far East, there was no economic miracle there at all – but just tortures and executions.b576630742ae6fcb9ca6ce17e5c.jpg
Of course, Japan was not there alone  - but with democracies that are now lecturing the world about human rights and moral high groundsIntervenci%C3%B3nInternacionalEnVladivos
So let me take your statement about “10 trillion USD” with a big deal of skepticism (and I am afraid other nations of Asia-Pacific region are also not exactly cheering outcome of Japan control before and during WWII). Japanese ambassador giving advice to Ukraine? I am not sure Japan got record of creating prosperity in neighboring countries, not mentioning so distant ones.
 
Second, you complain about drawing analogy between Crimea and Taiwan – but arguments  you use in justifying why “Taiwan is not China” is very similar to ones of why “Crimea is not Ukraine” (with only difference in Crimea case this arguments are stronger) – and still denied by “Civilized world”; so I see your attempt to refer to “it's like how some other country trying to get territory because it was once part of their territory in the past.” as bare twist of logic.

And , third, speaking about Chinese bombers - may be now Taiwan politicians are pretending not to be part of mainland China – but few decades ago, when the same political force was ruling mainland China, they were quite happy to send Chinese bombers with Soviet crews to bomb Japanese occupation forces on Taiwan
http://worldatwar.ne.../v3n1/luks.html

Why are you talking about an economic result 70-80 years ago? Because your trolling. Trying to hit emotions with the past as a distraction to an argument that centers on now and that you couldn't win. But if you want to talk about 70-80 years ago, I dare say the Ukraine still had it worse under Soviet control than what Manchuria had under Imperial Japanese control, you fanatic.
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#2180 Roman Alymov

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 1845 PM

Why are you talking about an economic result 70-80 years ago? Because your trolling. Trying to hit emotions with the past as a distraction to an argument that centers on now and that you couldn't win.

I am pointing at events dating “70-80 years ago” (or even 100 years ago as  Japanese  troops landed in Vladovostok on April 4, 1918) as it was time when practical attempt was done to test your claim. As we know, it failed in 1945  - and I do not want to go into “emotional” details of this failure (after all Russians were not the worst hit by this events – let’s leave it to our Chinese  members).  Since then, experiments like that were prevented. Yes, this prevention required USSR\Russia, 3rd world economy, to maintain 1st world armed force, with all side effects attached – but it was for strong reasons for that and I see no reasons to this practice dropped in any visible future.

 

 

But if you want to talk about 70-80 years ago, I dare say the Ukraine still had it worse under Soviet control than what Manchuria had under Imperial Japanese control, you fanatic.

Again, I am not in position to evaluate economic performance of Manchuria under Imperial Japanese control – let’s leave it to Chinese to comment on this golden age. From my limited experience with Chinese tourists visiting war museums here in Russia, they are still emotional about this control. This emotions might be one of the factors influencing policy of modern-day China, rising superpower. Will see what will be outcome of that.


Edited by Roman Alymov, 22 April 2018 - 1846 PM.

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