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#12141 Chris Werb

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 1542 PM

 

 

 

Which indicate radar lock on something (my guess cruise missile) and a "hit" at least according to the fire control radar...

 

 

 

Could the something be a MALD or MALD-J?

 

No point deploying MALD, as there was no higher value target to deflect attention from.

 

 

But they would soak up SAMs and otherwise distract the defences. MALD's unit cost is $30000 to $332000 depending on version (the initial A version was bought in tiny quantities) according to Wiki so still a lot less than even a Tomahawk. Also, in this case, the success of the mission was probably deemed more valuable than the cost of the missiles employed. 


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#12142 bojan

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 1550 PM

I seem to recall reading of lots of SA-2s fired "blind" during the Vietnam War suggesting some sort of secondary firing mode.

 

There is reserve TV tracking mode on SA-6/11, but:

- it is useless at night (unless they got thermals)

- it still needs radar for guiding missile.


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#12143 bojan

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 1602 PM

So, who is laying?

 

CNN

Biological samples from Syria attack site test positive for chlorine and nerve agent, official says

 

https://edition.cnn....tack/index.html

or

CDC:

 

 

Laboratory criteria for diagnosis:
"No biologic marker for chlorine exposure is readily available."

https://emergency.cd...ine/casedef.asp


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#12144 Dawes

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 1603 PM

Looks like UK Storm Shadow stocks are now down 8 missiles. Wonder if there's any intention to replace them?


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#12145 Chris Werb

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 1718 PM

Looks like UK Storm Shadow stocks are now down 8 missiles. Wonder if there's any intention to replace them?

 

We (and the French), shortsightedly decommissioned a bunch (I think it was a third of our stock) a few years ago. That said, we started out with 900 and have used very few - 27 vs Iraq in 2003, probably less than ten vs Libya in 2015 and four vs ISIS in 2015/16 IIRC, so ample numbers remain and are getting a modest SLEP instead of the additional capabilities mooted under SPEAR Capability 4.  As an aside, although I am sure there were safety and other concerns preventing them from doing so, but RAF Tornadoes could have launched Stormshadows immediately upon takeoff from Akrotiri as the missile allegedly has a range of 300+ nm on a lo-lo profile.


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#12146 Colin

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 2011 PM

So, who is laying?

 

CNN

Biological samples from Syria attack site test positive for chlorine and nerve agent, official says

 

https://edition.cnn....tack/index.html

or

CDC:

 

 

Laboratory criteria for diagnosis:
"No biologic marker for chlorine exposure is readily available."

https://emergency.cd...ine/casedef.asp

Likely media who don't have a clue what they write about, but will use cool sounding words...


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#12147 Simon Tan

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 0118 AM

The Syrians have 12 'new' Pechora-2M as shown in these videos;-

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=VVJaF5bgoYU

 

https://www.youtube....1HK61SqMmU&t=7s

 

The Russians have been working on returning the Syrian AD system to full operability since 2016. I expect this may have included refurbishing the substantial number of S-125 semi-fixed firing posts and integrating in the upgrades into their radars and command posts as well as new digital control as well as new 5V27DE missiles which have improved kinematics and are designed to operate against very low flying targets.

Commercial sat photos should show if clearly if there is any damage against the many airfields targeted.

 

Historically the more interesting AD element has been the S-200 (SA-5 Gammon) which is compatible with the S-300 command system. Iran has copied the S-200 and may well have integrated modernizations.


Edited by Simon Tan, 15 April 2018 - 0228 AM.

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#12148 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 0158 AM

 

There was also a Virginia class submarine firing Tomahawks. A french frigate fired something called Scalp If I heard correctly?
The way I see it, if we had done nothing, there would have been complaints. We could have gone all out and started WW3, and we would have got complaints. So we did something fairly equidistant between those two points, and predictably, we got complaints. :D
I dont really see how we could have done more, or done less to be honest.


Ah, but complaints about WW3 would have been over very quickly.

 

 

Oh im sure there would be some tanknetters ranting about it into all eternity. :)


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#12149 Roman Alymov

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 0203 AM

Report from Dumeira airbase, including interview with BUK commander who shot down all 12 incomming cruise missiles (distance 26 to 12 kilometers); then ruins of Damascus research centre - they say it was repeatedly hit by Israel in previous years and since then empty


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#12150 Roman Alymov

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 0445 AM

Targets accordung to US

5364478_original.jpg

5364839_original.jpg

 

Note crowds of journalists walking in t-shirts around smoking ruins of what West claim is chemical weapons research centre

https://www.youtube....h?v=KwrETbBQ1DM

https://www.youtube....h?v=GcA0cIx8WPs


Edited by Roman Alymov, 15 April 2018 - 0447 AM.

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#12151 Roman Alymov

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 0448 AM


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#12152 Chris Werb

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 0525 AM

Report from Dumeira airbase, including interview with BUK commander who allegedly shot down all 12 alleged incomming cruise missiles (alleged distance 26 to 12 kilometers);

FIFY
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#12153 Simon Tan

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 0539 AM

Actually no missiles were fired by either side. Just fireworks.
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#12154 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 1046 AM

This may be an explanation why the rumoured RN submarine in the Eastern Med didnt fire any Tomahawks. Or maybe, its complete bilge. I only give it credence because we saw on flightradar24, the area being patrolled by a P8.

http://www.dailymail...se-pursuit.html


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#12155 JWB

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 1101 AM

Lavrov is lying:

 

https://twitter.com/...243574123057152


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#12156 Stuart Galbraith

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 1114 AM

You know, I really wish the Russians would just nuke us and get it over with. Anything would be better than listening to more of Lavrovs insane twaddle.

 

Next you know, he will be announcing there are no American tanks in Moscow. :)


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#12157 Dark_Falcon

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 1235 PM

It turns out the United States' punishment of Russia for Assad's use of chemical weapons is to take an economic form:

 

 

US to impose sanctions on Russia in wake of Syrian chemical attack

 

U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations (U.N.) Nikki Haley announced on Sunday the U.S. would impose new sanctions on Russia following the deadly suspected chemical weapons attack in Syria last week. 

 

"Russia sanctions will be coming down. [Treasury] Secretary [Steven] Mnuchin will be announcing those on Monday if he hasn't already, and they will be going directly to any sort of companies that were dealing with equipment related to [Syrian leader Bashar] Assad and chemical weapons use," Haley told CBS News's Margaret Brennan on "Face the Nation."

 

"So I think everyone is going to be feeling it at this point. I think everyone knows that we sent a strong message, and our hope is that they listen to us," she said. 

 

The sanctions are designed to hit Russia for its support for the Assad government after last week's apparent chemical attack on Syrian civilians. 

Assad and Russia have denied involvement in the attack. 

 

The U.S., along with France and the U.K., launched over 100 missiles at three targets in Syria on Friday in response to the attack. 

 

Russia, in turn, proposed a draft resolution in the U.N. Security Council aimed at condemning “the aggression against the Syrian Arab Republic by the U.S. and its allies in violation of international law and the U.N. Charter.”

 

The U.N. Security Council on Saturday voted against the proposal.


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#12158 Roman Alymov

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 1400 PM

 

It turns out the United States' punishment of Russia for Assad's use of chemical weapons is to take an economic form:

 

 

US to impose sanctions on Russia in wake of Syrian chemical attack

 

U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations (U.N.) Nikki Haley announced on Sunday the U.S. would impose new sanctions on Russia following the deadly suspected chemical weapons attack in Syria last week. 

 

 

Russian take of that is US leadership looking for the way to «punish” Russia for failure of their much-advertised strike on Syria.

Barzeh research centre after strike (photo from Russian correspondent)

30171331_10216903811572977_4144046556617

 

 

and before the  strike

https://avatars.mds....219e50dcef/orig

 

Three buildings are definitely destroyed, but US claim of destroying them by 79 cruise missiles is implausible IMHO

30167416_10216903812252994_4477811252594

 

 

Russian MOD estimation of 30 cruide missiles attacking this region (7 shot down) seems far more likely. Other missiles were aimed at airbases (and were shot down)


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#12159 Roman Alymov

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 1401 PM

Article (in Russian, but with photros) covering results of the strikes

https://zen.yandex.r...56d5c208b332329


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#12160 Roman Alymov

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 1405 PM

Video of British planes getting ready for the strike

 

"Strike lay down from Pentagon - 107 missiles (though Dunford added this to 105)

From the Red Sea
Ticonderoga Cruiser Monterey - 32 TLAM
Arleigh Burke destroyer Laboon – 7 TLAM

North Arabian Gulf
Burke-class destroyer Higgins - 23 TLAM

Eastern Med
French FFG (unsure of name Dunford said something French sounding but it doesn't match any ships I know) - 3 MdCN Naval version of Scalp
Virginia-class SSN John Warner - 6 TLAM

Airpower
2x B-1B lancer bombers fired 19 JASSM-ER missiles
British Tornados and Typhoons 4x fired 8 Stormshadow ALCMs
French combination of Rafales and Mirages fired 9 SCALP ALCMs

Variety of defensive counter air, tanker, and electronic attack aircraft involved. No successful Syrian air defense engagement, and no indication Russian air defenses were engaged.

Syria fired 40 SAMs, but they were fired long after cruise missiles struck, and on a ballistic trajectory without guidance. Basically shooting blind."


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